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Machine Problems, Solutions , Wireless DNC, serial port Need help with your Machine or need a Machining solutions for , Serial Port, Cable problems between PC and all others DNC problems disucss them here!


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Old 08-24-2006, 03:46 PM
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 3
tarasan is on a distinguished road
Question About CNC And Software/Hardware

I am very new to this so I apologize if I come off ignorant in this area, please bear with me. My company has a HL-90 Tracing System, that is part of a Koike Aronson IK 1200J Cantilever Coordinate Drive Optical Trace Cutting Machine. We want to get CNC set up as everything is manual right now. I've talked with the company and they said the following:

'After we can determine what we are working with we can give an estimate of what will be required to perform the operations you require. You will be looking in the neighborhood of about $16000.00 for the CNC, Interface, Encoders, Basic Software (included free), Isolation Modems, and cables. Plasma select, and any other options will be additional. I have included the software pricing and options list. We will include the basic software at no additional charge if the D11 (Picopath) control is purchased from Koike. This will save about $2900.00.'

My questions are:
1. Is that a fair or accurate price?
2. Is a specific companies hardware proprietary to their software and whatever else needs to be done?
3. Is this something our company could do ourselves and cut the price dramatically?

Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
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Old 08-24-2006, 10:02 PM
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 3,319
NC Cams is on a distinguished road

Sure. You can get a start into the research in what it takes to do a DIY retrofit from the following:

CNC Dictionary
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showth...662#post186662
http://www.thewarfields.com/MTCNCDictionary.htm

Great NC controller thread - NC vs PC’s
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showth...852#post182852

Lathe retrofits
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showth...lathe+retrofit
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showth...lathe+retrofit
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showth...lathe+retrofit

Research
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showth...9&page=1&pp=15
specifically post #15

Electronics books
http://www.forrestmims.com
or
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/pro...lance&n=283155

The "holy grail" of electronics info for the DIY CNC neophyte:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/052...lance&n=283155

Web-based books on electronics:
www.ibiblio.org/obp/electricCircuits/

Why parallel ports may have limitations at doing CNC control::

See post #5 in the following thread:
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showth...852#post181852

LPT Port limitations wrt driving steppers and servos, especially posts 16 thru 19
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showth...255#post186255

Linear scales;
http://www.cnczone.com/cg...3;t=003181;p=0

Ball screw basics:
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20748

Ball screw treatise, the hard core stuff:
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showth...?t=8813&page=1


PID tuning
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20927

Capacitance post
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showpo...24&postcount=5

Daisychaining ATX power supplies:

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showth...015#post142015
http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=108208

Linear P/S design/construction
http://www.campbelldesigns.com/files...ply-part-1.pdf

How to properly phase a transformer in linear p/s:
http://cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14821&page1

Step to analog converter
http://www.skyko.com/products/

Servo amp P/S design
http://www.elecdesign.com/Articles/A...7635/7635.html

Servo motor , servo amp, powersupply sizing for CNC
http://www.rutex.com/pdf/Mystique2.pdf

Bearing literature:
http://www.bardenbearings.com/literatr.htm

http://www.timken.com/products/bearings/catalogs/

http://www.jp.nsk.com/app01/en/catal...gi?ec=bearings

Get the NSK E1102 catalog for starters

Press fits:
http://www.eng-tips.com/faqs.cfm?fid=1230

Motor torque info/defininition
http://www.merkle-korff.com/formulas.asp#con

What gage wire to use:
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17350
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showth...480#post136480

Servo vs Stepper:
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17419

Simply stepper info:
http://www.parkermotion.com/catalog/catalogA/A12.pdf

Stepper reverse engineering:
http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~ih/doc/stepper/others/

Stepper sizing:
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17707

Small stepper P/S
http://www.campbelldesigns.com/files...ply-part-1.pdf

G code parts counter
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22223

Haas TNC explanation
http://www.haascnc.com/customer_serv...he/96-8700.pdf

Be advised that a plasma cutter has some unique challenges over and above those of other CNC's due to the RF problems endemic to the system.
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Old 08-24-2006, 10:20 PM
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 3
tarasan is on a distinguished road

Thanks, this is great information, I'll be visiting this site often.
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Old 08-25-2006, 06:26 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 162
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Hi tarasan
First get a number of quotes to determine if Koike are giving you a good deal. In the end the machine is just a skeleton to convert to CNC. You don't have to use Koike just because they made the machine. Since this is a company machine you need to do some cost justifications to work out what potential savings you can make by CNCing it vs. the steep learning curve to be able to DIY.

If your machine is like what I think it is (we had an optical tracing doo-dad on a flame cutter at a company I used to work for) all you need is to tender the manufacture of a control box that can be driven by Mach or some other PC based controller. Basically all you need to do is to spec the current motors and encoders (or buy new) so appropriate drives are selected. A clued up industrial sparky could build it for you and I wouldn't mind betting there would be a few guys in these forums who have built a control box for a plasma/flame cutter who would be willing to share their experiences with you and maybe even give you some specs on how they built theirs.

Cheers

Derek
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Old 08-28-2006, 08:23 PM
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 3
tarasan is on a distinguished road

Hi derekj308,

Thanks for your reply. I don't mind doing the DIY but as you said the cost justification for my employers will be the big thing. In the end will I end up costing just as much if not more and screwing the whole thing up in time and wages as if I had a company do it.

The machine is exactly as you say so I'll try to see what I can do. Unfortunately my boss is wanting to do this at a slow time when he doesn't have a lot of money coming in so this maybe an after work project to try and help him.

On an unrelated note I'm curious if anyone has a preference of software and why. Currently I am trying 3, SolidWorks 2005, AutoCad 2007 and Autodesk Inventor 10.
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