How would you use Mach to control a bender?

[panozeng]

Actually - the violent force this thing creates when it stop has more to do with the inertia of the bend arm. It probably weighs 800lbs and is about 4 feet long from the center of the spindle...

[panozeng]

Al - I had been thinking about that method as well. But this valve you mentioned sounds much cleaner and would give more control...

[Al_The_Man]

The more control you have the more features you can add, for example the one I did had anticipated position slow-down and also the operator programmed in a spring-back value for different types of tube, so it would overshoot by so many degress to allow for the bend to end up at the correct value.
Al.

[Al_The_Man]

This is the link, they have changed names since I originally got the info, they used to be Olsen Controls now http://www.victorycontrols.com/valves/index.htm
Al.

[panozeng]

Thanks, Al. That is a very interesting valve - would really be a clean way to control the bend speed on this machine! Of course, I could get silly since this machine already has a manual flow control valve to adjust the speed and just add a stepper to that...

Again, thanks for looking that up!
Jason

[panozeng]

Well, I have decided to stay with the PLC for the time being. I discovered that Automation Direct was in my backyard - less than 20 miles away so I went and visited them. They were amazingly helpful and spent a lot of time showing me the basics of the PLC system, giving suggestions on the best way to implememnt the features I want, etc. I was very impressed with their customer support to say the least!

But, as a short term way to get my bend angle under digital control I turned to ebay. I bought a Red Lion Gem1 programmable counter on there for $9.99 and a 360 pulse per rev quadrature encoder from Automation Direct for $81.00. The couter just arrived today, and I was quickly able to set it up the way I wanted with the encoder. It has a relay with a programmable setpoint, so it will definitely be an improvement over manually setting a mechanical stop on the machine!

Thanks for the help - and the Red Lion tip!
Jason

[turmite]

Hi Jason

I'm the guy who ask about your being with Panoz in the other thread. How long to compeption on this machine? Would you be so kind as to post some pics when you get it done and some bends would be nice too.

Forgive me if this is too nosey but could this have chassis apps?

Mike

[panozeng]

Turmite - Actually, Panoz is my day job, and the tubing bender is for a business I have started of my own. I have started a fabrication shop that focuses on mandrel tube bending - and mostly for automotive industries. I can do cages, chassis work, exhaust, and about any other thin or thickwalled tubing up to 4" for now.

There are some pics in the gallery on my website - www.tubularfab.com
And yes, Panoz is a big customer - you'd be surprised how many application for bent tubes there are in an automobile!

Jason

[fer_mayrl]

You can keep the machine the way it is, and add possition control to the limit switches that determine the bend angle. Use mach3 and a stepper or servo motor and matching driver to move thelimit switch, Im sure you could determine the motor steps per degree of bending.
It should work, and with mach 3 you could have up to 6 axis, or 6 limit switches.

If you become greedy, you could actually use a couple of those axes to feed the tube to any desired lenght, and the other one to rotate the tube on any angle. That way you could have a fully cnc'd tube bender that can make a lot of bends on a single tube atuomatically.
Regards
Fernando

[turmite]

Like stainless 180 headers for a Caddy Northstar in a midengine config? , you mean like bending pieces for a chassis that can be shipped in a box and then welded in the customers jig, you mean like control arms front and rear?

Can you tell I like what I'm thinking I'm I hearing?

In all reality, I probably can't afford it but if you can do all those I will send in the drawings for a rfq. What file format do you need?

I'm just now in the secondary design stage and by that I mean I am making changes to the body. http://www.thevosa.blogspot.com/ In case you're interested.

Mike

[panozeng]

Yep - that kind of stuff is exactly what I do at my shop. For something as tight as headers I would just bend a bunch of 180's and cut the sections I need out since it is very difficult to get the bends close enough together. As a general rule of thumb you need 2 - 3 times the diameter of the tube between bend tangents to clamp the tube for the next bend. Special tooling can cut this way back but it's extremely expensive and only good for one given bend.

I guess the easiest way right now to send a file is as an .igs if it's 3d. If it's 2d a dxf will also work.

I made the following part last night. It's a trial piece for a bling bling roll bar for a Panoz. The final bar will be bent from polished 2.5" OD x .083 wall stainless while the one shown is 2.5" OD x .065 wall seamed mild steel.

[timmyb199]

so i have read this thread with some very interesting intent.i have been bitten by the cnc bug and builta router/plasma and well giddy up. so the other night im in the shop and me and my buddy start talking about building a go cart. well push came to shove and we decided we needed a tubing bender, so i went on to internet and found a nice one to try to build and since i have a hoist which is electric over hydrolic i decided to go with the hydrolic route, well then in think i thought we damn in the end couldnt we make a computer control it. so i went to my trusty site and found this thread. which appars has come to a halt. well i would like to rejuvinate it for all the home enthusiasts, because well i think it can be done cheaper than some think. well anyone who wants on the bandwagon lets go, this is my thinking so far, i will also post apic of the bender i am building,

First

i am no geniuous , but i also never thought i could build a functional cnc router

second here are my thoughts

envision a table eith the bender on the end

a eight foot pipe is loaded in the rack (would be the x axis)

this rack has a block on the end that would push the pipe left to right along an x axis.

another stepper is located on this rack that would rotate the pipe (perhaps the y axis?)

so in mach three or whatever program you would make your g code

say you want a 90 degree bend 3 feet from the end you would load your pipe and zero the software the it woul push the pipe 3 feet(give or take dpending on bend ect.) then somehow you need to have another stepper drive my hydrolic lever to make the bender staart bending theni am thinking just an encoder (or something to know the degree of bend) then if you wanted another bend 2 feet don but the pipe rotated the x stepper would rotoatoe and ect ect ect,

it is late and i am tired but i really think this is feasable

i would think the things needed would be

the bender

the steppers (or servo if ya got more bucks than me)

perhaps a screen set for mach three (designed around what you need for this

well anyway tell me what you think