Mach3 VS G540 & A131 VFD "Spindle control in MACH3"

[mactec54]

Mac,
Thx for looking at that.... As clearly I'm a bit confused with it, lol. I will be playing with it all weekend, can't wait to get cracking on it!!

My BOB I'm using is the ess, it interfaces G540 with a db25 (see attached for 25 pin pinout). Then BOB is rj45 into my windows 7 desktop pc.
In the ess setup it suggests leaving it at the 25000Hz but, your not the first one I've heard say the 60000Hz is better.
I currently have G540 pin8 going to "20mA IN" as I read somewhere.... I don't know if that's right? What do you think? See attached.

Thx
DIY

With your machine you should not need more than 45000Hz setting

That terminal that 8 is using has more than one use, that is what the Parameters are for, they change that 20ma in port to 0-10v port it has other use as well

If you can not solve this, you may have to use the 5v connection for your speed control

[diyhands]

Mac,
Well the good news is I no longer get a ESTOP or Error message in MACH3 when I turn the spindle on...... Not sure if I can quite call it progress at this point because the spindle still won't budge. I did notice however that the OUTPUT #1 Was flashing red in the diagnostic tab in MACH, it does this everytime I run spindle. This made me think of what you were telling me earlier post about my Spindle and outputs not matching up:

"Some of those settings are most likely off a bit, I don't know what your Breakout Board pin assignment is, that's something you will have to play with

25000Hz is a little low, but may be all your need for your machine, 45000Hz setting would be better, if you change this then other settings wound need to change also

Spindle Pulley should be 6000 and 24000

PWM # seems low

Spindle Motor tuning step 1 Velocity 12000

Ports Pins

Output signals does not match the spindle pins

Spindle step pin 14 your Dir 0 this may need to be 1 but not 0"



Here's what another guy said on another thread:
"Hi,the G540 is setup for one analogue output. One of the digital outputs could be used as a relay signal. May I suggest using this scheme while you
consider the coding required to implement Modbus control.

On the ESS assign pin 14 port 1 as PWM output, pin 17 port 1 as relay. Once the G540 is plugged in screw terminal 8 should be analogue voltage out
with screw terminal VFD ground and screw terminal 9 as VFD 10V. Screw terminal 5 is on/off signal for VFD, a relay maybe."

So Im not sure why It wont work through mach, driving me nuts....lol there must be a way. I think part of my problem is not understanding the flow of I/O's between ESS, G540 & VFD as it correlates to MACH Ports and Pins among other settings.

G540 to VFD:
-G540 Pin7 (VFD GND) >>> VFD (GND) & (FWD) // Should I have this jumpered to VFD FWD like this?
-G540 Pin8 (VFD OUTPUT) >>> VFD (20mA IN) // Should this be VFD: 12V out
-G540 Pin9 (VFD +10VDC) >>> VFD (10V IN) // Pretty sure this is right

[mactec54]

Mac,
Well the good news is I no longer get a ESTOP or Error message in MACH3 when I turn the spindle on...... Not sure if I can quite call it progress at this point because the spindle still won't budge. I did notice however that the OUTPUT #1 Was flashing red in the diagnostic tab in MACH, it does this everytime I run spindle. This made me think of what you were telling me earlier post about my Spindle and outputs not matching up:

"Some of those settings are most likely off a bit, I don't know what your Breakout Board pin assignment is, that's something you will have to play with

25000Hz is a little low, but may be all your need for your machine, 45000Hz setting would be better, if you change this then other settings wound need to change also

Spindle Pulley should be 6000 and 24000

PWM # seems low

Spindle Motor tuning step 1 Velocity 12000

Ports Pins

Output signals does not match the spindle pins

Spindle step pin 14 your Dir 0 this may need to be 1 but not 0"



Here's what another guy said on another thread:
"Hi,the G540 is setup for one analogue output. One of the digital outputs could be used as a relay signal. May I suggest using this scheme while you
consider the coding required to implement Modbus control.

On the ESS assign pin 14 port 1 as PWM output, pin 17 port 1 as relay. Once the G540 is plugged in screw terminal 8 should be analogue voltage out
with screw terminal VFD ground and screw terminal 9 as VFD 10V. Screw terminal 5 is on/off signal for VFD, a relay maybe."

So Im not sure why It wont work through mach, driving me nuts....lol there must be a way. I think part of my problem is not understanding the flow of I/O's between ESS, G540 & VFD as it correlates to MACH Ports and Pins among other settings.

G540 to VFD:
-G540 Pin7 (VFD GND) >>> VFD (GND) & (FWD) // Should I have this jumpered to VFD FWD like this?
-G540 Pin8 (VFD OUTPUT) >>> VFD (20mA IN) // Should this be VFD: 12V out
-G540 Pin9 (VFD +10VDC) >>> VFD (10V IN) // Pretty sure this is right

No it should not be Jumped, it should be connected to the Relay in the G540, as a temp tryout it is ok to do this

Ok I have not worked with the G540, you are almost correct Pin 9 needs to connect to the 12v out from the VFD, ( Just make sure the G540 can take 12v in, and measure the VFD output before you connect it to the G540 ) Pin 7 and 8 stay where they are connected, I though you had Pin 9 connected to 10v Volt out

In motor Tuning the pin you are using, Have to match the output Pin # in Ports and Pins

The PWM in Mach3 has to match the same in the Smooth Stepper settings

[diyhands]

Mac, Please see attached doc I created of my pinouts and how its correlated in MACH. Simplifies the flow a bit to put things into perspective.... feel free to share with other dum dums like me, LMAO!!!


Ok,
so.... youre saying we need to take the (VFD-12Vdc OUT) to (G540-Pin 8)?

Should I use A (G540 OUTPUT-Pin 5) to (VFD FWD) to ensure CW?



Thanks,
DIY

[mactec54]

Mac, Please see attached doc I created of my pinouts and how its correlated in MACH. Simplifies the flow a bit to put things into perspective.... feel free to share with other dum dums like me, LMAO!!!


Ok,
so.... youre saying we need to take the (VFD-12Vdc OUT) to (G540-Pin 8)?

Should I use A (G540 OUTPUT-Pin 5) to (VFD FWD) to ensure CW?



Thanks,
DIY

I don't think anyone is a Dumb Dumb, everyone is exposed to different things, some more than others, and have different abilities in other areas, these connections can be quite complicated as none of the manufactures write there information how it should be, you did not pick a very good VFD as not many have had good success with this model VFD, with these connections for spindle control

And now you are confusing me, No it is not Pin 8 Pin 9 is for the +12v from the VFD to the G540 Connection

When you say use output pin 5 to VFD FWD, does this Pin 5, turn On when you give it a M3 in Mach3 and off when you do a M5 try this when you are in MDI screen in Mach3, if this works then yes connect that Pin 5 for FWD control

What you want to do will work on the 5v connection, but will the G540 work with the 5v only supply for the spindle speed control ???

In the PDF file you just posted move the red box at the side down to Pin 9 Pin 8 outputs the signal for the G540 to the VFD ( Pin 8 is not for a voltage input )

Pin 8 is a 0-10v output for controlling the speed

Pin 8 can be 0-5v output, if it supports this lower voltage

Pin 9 +12v Input from the VFD ( with this +12v input into the G540 the G540 will only output this as a 0-10v through Pin 8 to control the speed, this output should change when you change it with a speed setting in Mach3 like M3S24000, this will then output to the VFD 10v If you did a M3S12000 then it would output to the VFD 5v

Pin 7 is Ground

[diyhands]

Hey Mac,
Good morning.. sorry I haven't been on in a couple days, things to do....

What I've done:

1. Ran my new IGUS Motion Cable through the flex chain, but have not yet made any terminations as I am still awaiting my connectors. I have disassembled and examined spindle (top part around cooling fan housing/shroud) to locate a good place to attach Earth GND. Found just about only one way to do it.... A bit unconventional but do not see why it shouldn't suffice just fine. When the connectors arrive I am ready to go. BTW..... That IGUS Motion Cable you suggested is SUPER SEXY man.. like it alot!!! Great quality!

2. FINALLY purchased my full license for Version R3.043.062 (suggested by Warp9 "MFG'r of my ESS motion controller") of Mach3...... Did a clean install to get it all back to defaults, then set back up my motor inputs and outputs all without a hitch at all..... learned the Axis auto-CAL. The reason I did the clean install was because I suspected the reason why everytime I loaded a DEMO g-code (i.e. road runner....ect...) it would cut in mm and the DRO's displayed IN was because during initial install and setup I selected mm for "Native UNITS" months ago and have since then decided otherwise and revert without re-installing. So once I did that it all worked fine just like I wanted.

3. Upon clean Install and tuning axis .... I also at that time followed Spindle wiring suggestions you recently made to me on last post. THERE WAS PROGRESS!!!!! THANKS MAC!!! Unfortunately I got no spindle motion.. I did however, see communication between VFD and Mach3 while performing M3 commands in the MDI..... I did not try an M5 yet as now my spindle is slightly apart awaiting my completion of my cable installation work. I would hit M3S24000 and I would see the DRO in Mach3 almost instantaneously jump straight to Max.. This to me was alarming as the Ramp was wayyyyyy to fast... Will look at that one for sure... Also, the display on the VFD would VERY VERY VERY SLOWLY ramp up (the decimal value displayed would ramp up incredibly slowly..... 20.4, 21.2, 22.1, 23, ect.... Took about 3 min. for it to get up to 138.4). Now... nothing is spinning during this observation, but it is a significant bit of progress as now all I need to do is find out why there's talking and no working... must be Mach3 settings, tuning, ect.... as I know the VFD was working perfect during manual operation config. and have not changed from simply switching it from manual to external control Pn-03, Pn-04.

Didn't see the Voltage on G540 Pin5 yet either.. so still doing something wrong there or it just doesn't work like I think about using it to turn on FWD to VFD..... I did however see 1 - 2 Vdc on G540 Pin8 this is also progress thanks to you... just need to figure out now why is so low. I measured 12Vdc between VFD FWD and VFD GND with the MultiMeter.... Forward is pulled high by default on VFD? what is the nominal voltage VFD FWD need to see to go active? I can see now this thing is clearly going to need the relay setup. Just looks like what it's intended for looking at the pin-out DWG provided by the Inverter (VFD). I also picked up some pots just incase. Im thinking either the VFD FWD 12Vdc potential to VFD GND because if there's 12Vdc on it always anyway maybe it needs to see llow condition to go active? Or use the VFD integrated Relay Lk, Lb, Lz to control signal at VFD FWD? I dunno.... will think about this one. But there must be a way to jumper it for now to at least figure out what will need to be done a bit more properly when I get to that point down the road.

How do you control your DIR on your VFD?

4. Beginning Control Box Assy:
Didn't like the Chinese blue box.... re-doing that mess and rewiring into a nice box with some good cable management and cooling..

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0791KB3TK/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=I4SFMASCDVIF0&colid=SJIFJZDONIJQ&psc=0

5. Shopping for air/mist sys..... have some stuff on Amazon

6. Shopping for good cutters for my ER11 (Will be working with wood, plastics (such as Delrin, Nylon, PVC) and some non-ferrous like 6061, brass, copper)
- Flat end mills (will likely face and rough with it for now until I outgrow my .8kw and ER11)
- Ball nose
- Engraving
- Chamfer
Any Good suggestions there? Where do you get your cutters?


Thx,
-DIY

[diyhands]

I don't think anyone is a Dumb Dumb, everyone is exposed to different things, some more than others, and have different abilities in other areas, these connections can be quite complicated as none of the manufactures write there information how it should be, you did not pick a very good VFD as not many have had good success with this model VFD, with these connections for spindle control

And now you are confusing me, No it is not Pin 8 Pin 9 is for the +12v from the VFD to the G540 Connection

When you say use output pin 5 to VFD FWD, does this Pin 5, turn On when you give it a M3 in Mach3 and off when you do a M5 try this when you are in MDI screen in Mach3, if this works then yes connect that Pin 5 for FWD control

What you want to do will work on the 5v connection, but will the G540 work with the 5v only supply for the spindle speed control ???

In the PDF file you just posted move the red box at the side down to Pin 9 Pin 8 outputs the signal for the G540 to the VFD ( Pin 8 is not for a voltage input )

Pin 8 is a 0-10v output for controlling the speed

Pin 8 can be 0-5v output, if it supports this lower voltage

Pin 9 +12v Input from the VFD ( with this +12v input into the G540 the G540 will only output this as a 0-10v through Pin 8 to control the speed, this output should change when you change it with a speed setting in Mach3 like M3S24000, this will then output to the VFD 10v If you did a M3S12000 then it would output to the VFD 5v

Pin 7 is Ground

Mac,
So here's what I have now.......

With MDI M3S24000 Mach3 DRO Jumps from "0" straight to 23000 in less than a second then slowly ramps to the 24000 in sync with what the VFD is displaying:

When I toss the meter across Pin7 and Pin8 (during the above stated M3S24000 command) I can see the Voltage Ramp from 1Vdc all the way to 10Vdc (this takes about 5 min to occur).

Thx,
DIY

[mactec54]

Mac,
So here's what I have now.......

With MDI M3S24000 Mach3 DRO Jumps from "0" straight to 23000 in less than a second then slowly ramps to the 24000 in sync with what the VFD is displaying:

When I toss the meter across Pin7 and Pin8 (during the above stated M3S24000 command) I can see the Voltage Ramp from 1Vdc all the way to 10Vdc (this takes about 5 min to occur).

Thx,
DIY

Then there is something wrong with the G540 PWM, others have had problems with PWM as well, not always the same as your problem

Pin 8 connection is incorrect it has to supply the VI Terminal on the VFD

[diyhands]

Mac,
Oh Noooooooo!! It does not give me "FAULT" indication ..... Nice bright green light all the way..... man, I sure hope not.... wonder if I can read it directly fro G540 DB25 Pin14 to check for that?? I bet I've just got Mach3 settings all miscombobulated... Have a look:









Sorry I misunderstood the Pin8..... This should be as you suggested now









Thx,
DIY

[mactec54]

You need to activate / Enable the Output Pin #1 in Mach3 this needs to be on

On the ESS main Config they usually have this set at 1Khz

And yes you need to test the output from the ESS before the G540, that needs to be working, showing you the voltage, that you set in Mach3 M3S12000 will give you 5v Etc

[mactec54]

I have just realized that you VFD wiring drawing is incorrect

Does your VFD Terminals look like this

[diyhands]

Mac,
Yessir..... thats the clunk of caca alright. I grew a grey hair just looking at it! lol.... is this yours as well?


DIY

[mactec54]

Mac,
Yessir..... thats the clunk of caca alright. I grew a grey hair just looking at it! lol.... is this yours as well?


DIY

No I would never buy a VFD like this, it is a poor copy of the real Huanyang, the AskPower works ok as a VFD but they lack in the control aera

So try this take the

5v out Pin2 to Pin 9 on the G540

Pin 3 5v in to Pin 8 on the G540

Pin 7 GND to Pin 7 on the G540

These VFD Drives seem to work better on the 5v connection than the 12v

[diyhands]

Hey Mac,
Ok, Did that.... Also Changed over PN-03 from (4) to (3) to tell VFD to expect a 0-5Vdc signal instead of the previous 0-10Vdc signal......

Ran an M3S20000 in Mach.....

Put my multi-meter across G540 P7 & P8 and found a good voltage of 4.68 Vdc or so... I should see something like this here, but..... when I adjust spindle speed up and down I see no change on my meter, in fact the voltage drops very slowly over time in .07 Vdc increments. The VFD display jumps to 393 Hz from all zeros once I reset the estop switch on G540/ Mach3.

So i dunno.... This is insane, lol..... I've literally tried one configuration after the other for months. Nothing broken, No faults given anywhere.... Wiring looks good. Setting up Mach is like picking winning lotto numbers and im almost certain there's where the problem lies...



DIY

[mactec54]

Hey Mac,
Ok, Did that.... Also Changed over PN-03 from (4) to (3) to tell VFD to expect a 0-5Vdc signal instead of the previous 0-10Vdc signal......

Ran an M3S20000 in Mach.....

Put my multi-meter across G540 P7 & P8 and found a good voltage of 4.68 Vdc or so... I should see something like this here, but..... when I adjust spindle speed up and down I see no change on my meter, in fact the voltage drops very slowly over time in .07 Vdc increments. The VFD display jumps to 393 Hz from all zeros once I reset the estop switch on G540/ Mach3.

So i dunno.... This is insane, lol..... I've literally tried one configuration after the other for months. Nothing broken, No faults given anywhere.... Wiring looks good. Setting up Mach is like picking winning lotto numbers and im almost certain there's where the problem lies...



DIY

How where you adjusting the spindle speed

So the output is almost correct, try a M3S12000 this should give you like 2.5v at Pn 7 / 8

[diyhands]

Mac,
I adjust it with M3 commands.....

I have:

G540 P7 ------ VFD GND
G540 P8 ------ VFD 5V OUT
G540 P9 ------ VFD 5V IN
VFD GND (jumper) VFD FWD (Spindle pulley "Disabled" no DIR assignment in "Motor Outputs" for spindle for this jumper config)

M3S12000 = 3.69Vdc @ G540 P7 & P8 (Mach3 Spindle DRO reads: 21601 RPM)

M3S24000 = 3.63Vdc @ G540 P7 & P8 (Mach3 Spindle DRO reads: 38399 RPM (Gives "Too fast for Pulley, using MAX" Error message))




DIY

[mactec54]

Mac,
I adjust it with M3 commands.....

I have:

G540 P7 ------ VFD GND
G540 P8 ------ VFD 5V OUT
G540 P9 ------ VFD 5V IN
VFD GND (jumper) VFD FWD (Spindle pulley "Disabled" no DIR assignment in "Motor Outputs" for spindle for this jumper config)

M3S12000 = 3.69Vdc @ G540 P7 & P8 (Mach3 Spindle DRO reads: 21601 RPM)

M3S24000 = 3.63Vdc @ G540 P7 & P8 (Mach3 Spindle DRO reads: 38399 RPM (Gives "Too fast for Pulley, using MAX" Error message))






DIY

The PWM in the G540 is not working

Do you have the Pulley speeds set up in Mach3 below is a starting point you will have to change the ratio to get it close to the set speed

[diyhands]

Mac,
This sucks... I hope thats not the case kind sir.

Where and how many places in Mach3 do I need to tell G54 PWM to work?

G540 P7 ------ VFD GND
G540 P8 ------ VFD 5V OUT
G540 P9 ------ VFD 5V IN
VFD GND (jumper) VFD FWD (Spindle pulley "Disabled" no DIR assignment in "Motor Outputs" for spindle for this jumper config)

M3S12000 = 3.69Vdc @ G540 P7 & P8 (Mach3 Spindle DRO reads: 21601 RPM)

M3S24000 = 3.63Vdc @ G540 P7 & P8 (Mach3 Spindle DRO reads: 38399 RPM (Gives "Too fast for Pulley, using MAX" Error message))

1.



2.



3.



4.



5.



So Mac, are you telling me that everything you see above looks to you like it is hooked up good enough to make a spindle at least move a little bit?!



DIY

[diyhands]

Alright MAC!!!!!
I sir am UP and RUNNING!!
So what I ended up doing was like you said..... I grabbed the scope from work, came home and basically began tracing the PWM signal all the way back from ESS pin14 Port 1 then began toggling questionable I/O settings in MACH3 until...... FINALLY found my analog 0-10 Vdc on the G540 Pin 8

So here's what I have working:






So Mac I owe a HUGE Thanks to you sir!!! Thank you for sticking with me and being there to bounce ideas off of and for all of your great suggestions!! Would have taken me much much longer if I were left to myself to dwell alone in the maddening situation..... So anyway.... Cut my first piece from a hunk of wood from the garage, designed in Inventor, CAM'd in HSM Express and executed in MACH3..... went smooth!!

Now I am working on:
1. Motion Cable (your suggestion) Install as connectors finally arrived a day ago.
2. Spindle takes FOREVER to ramp up to speed, gotta figure that out.... is there a calibration I can do?
3. Want to get some good cutters..... Want to surface, engrave, Chamfer, Mill and maybe some BAS relief (image to 3D .TAP) stuff so maybe a good ball mill
4. Know any good software for taking images (jpeg, DXF) to 3D and generating a .TAP ? Was looking at ARTCAM (since im already doing everything with autodesk and fluent) but it appears its discontinued??



DIY

[mactec54]

Alright MAC!!!!!
I sir am UP and RUNNING!!
So what I ended up doing was like you said..... I grabbed the scope from work, came home and basically began tracing the PWM signal all the way back from ESS pin14 Port 1 then began toggling questionable I/O settings in MACH3 until...... FINALLY found my analog 0-10 Vdc on the G540 Pin 8

So here's what I have working:






So Mac I owe a HUGE Thanks to you sir!!! Thank you for sticking with me and being there to bounce ideas off of and for all of your great suggestions!! Would have taken me much much longer if I were left to myself to dwell alone in the maddening situation..... So anyway.... Cut my first piece from a hunk of wood from the garage, designed in Inventor, CAM'd in HSM Express and executed in MACH3..... went smooth!!

Now I am working on:
1. Motion Cable (your suggestion) Install as connectors finally arrived a day ago.
2. Spindle takes FOREVER to ramp up to speed, gotta figure that out.... is there a calibration I can do?
3. Want to get some good cutters..... Want to surface, engrave, Chamfer, Mill and maybe some BAS relief (image to 3D .TAP) stuff so maybe a good ball mill
4. Know any good software for taking images (jpeg, DXF) to 3D and generating a .TAP ? Was looking at ARTCAM (since im already doing everything with autodesk and fluent) but it appears its discontinued??



DIY

Yes we need to look at your VFD Parameter's to get this up to speed quicker