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    Default motion controllers

    Can someone help me out with a couple different motion controllers.

    Go to this website ......... USB-MC MOTION CONTROLLER - Audiohms
    this place has a couple videos on youtube with this motion controller spinning a nema 34 stepper motor 4,000, and 8,000 RPM's using mach3
    it says on the website . (At the same time, much higher output frequency for step signal (up to 250 kHz) is achieved and much better quality of output than it is possible with parallel port regardless of performances of used computer)

    If you go to the https://www.warp9td.com/
    on the smooth stepper website it says this.........(Pulse Output Capabilities Up to 4 MHz, Step and Direction, Quadrature, CW/CCW )


    Is this the same thing? If so, the smooth stepper is 16 times faster with the signals???
    am I missing something?

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    Default Re: motion controllers

    Keep in mind that most stepper drives can't accept more than 200kHz step signals. Even the high end ones accepts upto 200kHz only.
    Also take into account that the higher the frequency the higher the risk for noise so you don't really want to go in the MegaHertz range with the step signals.
    Running MHz frequencies is kind of risky even if your drives can read it.



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    Member ger21's Avatar
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    Default Re: motion controllers

    Couple things.
    One, you can't actually use a stepper at 4000 or 8000 rpm, because it won't have much torque at all at those rpms.
    The fastest I've ever heard of anyone using one on a machines, was a smaller Nema 23, at around 2500rpm.
    The max usable rpm you'll likely get from a small Nema 34 or larger Nema 23 is 1200-1500rpm, with high voltage, and a good drive.

    Yes, the ESS can output pulses 16x faster. But most drives can read pulses that fast. My Leadshine AM882's have a max input of 250Khz.
    Drives also require minimum pulse widths, and as pulse speeds increase, pulse widths get smaller.

    Gerry

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    Default Re: motion controllers

    Thanks Gerry, yes I do know you can't use a stepper going that fast. I'm just trying to learn what everything means.
    I am a toolmaker of over 20 years, so electronics are somewhat new to me. I am working on a project, and I have two Nema34 steppers that I can only get about 400 RPM out of. I am wondering if there is anything I can do different and get up to 800 - 1,000 RPM's and not gear up with gears or belts.
    I am using an arduino right now, but I am going to try Mach3 to see if I can get more. I have to get a motion controller, but don't know which one to get.

    I wonder why the smooth stepper can go up to 200MHz if it's not any good with noise that fast?? Can you adjust how fast the step signals are sent with it?? If its noisy at that 200MHz speed, I don't want it sending signals that fast.

    If I am trying to go as fast as I can with these steppers, can you guys recommend a different driver for me? or anything else I can try?
    this is what I bought..................
    【USA FREE】 2AXIS Wantai 1Axis Nema34 Stepper Motor 1700oz-in 151mm 6A CNC plase | eBay



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    Default Re: motion controllers

    You don't need a motion controller run those steppers. Mach3 is a motion controller. All you need as that little breakout board and the cable that came with your steppers assuming you have a parallel port on your computer.

    You might try 1/2 or 1/4 stepping to get more speed.



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    Default Re: motion controllers

    I haven't had a parallel port on any computers for probably 15 years

    is the 1/2 and 1/4 stepping from the drives? how do I do that?
    I tried all the different combinations on the drive for pulse/rev table. is that what you mean?



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    Default Re: motion controllers

    I don't think you can get that motor spinning that fast.

    The issue has nothing to do with the speed of the step pulses, but more to do with the motor, drive, and power supply.

    The larger the motor, the slower they tend to spin. The motor in the video was 4Nm, less than 1/3 the size of yours.
    The higher the inductance, the slower a motor will spin, Ideally, you want a motor with an inductance of 1-3mH, the lower the better. To get a motor to spin faster, you need to provide a higher voltage, especially with a higher inductance motor. You'd probably need to at least double the voltage to get close to what you want. This typically requires expensive drives that run on direct AC.

    As many people have found out, these large inexpensive motor kits on Ebay are not very useful, except in slow speed applications.

    Gerry

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    Default Re: motion controllers

    Well Gerry, that's kind of disappointing. Maybe you can help me determine a better combination of stepper and driver to get a higher speed? I'm not against getting something different if I know it will work. If you have some ideas, please let me know.
    When I first bought this thing, I took it to our local Vo-Tech and let the kids play with it. They had it spinning around 1,000RPM's with a pulse generator. They had to accelerate it slow, but boy was it spinning. But we can't replicate it with the Arduino.
    That's why I thought about Mach3 to see if I can replicate the RPM's.

    This is what I'm trying to build..........
    Specialty Archery, LLC

    Whatever they are using, it goes 2500 RPM's looking at the youtube video, it sure seems like a stepper motor.



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    Member ger21's Avatar
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    Default Re: motion controllers

    That thing says it twists the string at only 600rpm, so I'm not sure what it does at 2500 rpm.

    A motor like this should be fine for what you want:
    http://www.automationtechnologiesinc...-single-shaft/

    Gerry

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    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
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    Member ger21's Avatar
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    Default Re: motion controllers

    It's possible that you may be limited by your Arduino, even with a better motor. I've never used one, so don't really know.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Default Re: motion controllers

    "That thing says it twists the string at only 600rpm, so I'm not sure what it does at 2500 rpm."


    it can add twist in the string at 600 RPM and it serves the string at 2500 RPM
    serving is.... the string spins between the two motors without putting any twist in the string. then you wind another string around the string spinning (kind of like making a spring on a lathe).
    go to about 2:40 in this video and you will see this machine serving. It is very slow at 600 RPM (but better than doing it by hand)

    Thanks for your help with my questions Gerry. what is the recommended motion controller that everyone is using?

    Has anyone heard of the one on this website? USB-MC MOTION CONTROLLER - Audiohms

    Should I stick with the smooth stepper? or is there a one you would recommend? It looks like the smooth stepper has very good instructions on their website. I want to play around with Mach3, and either need to buy an old computer or buy a motion controller. I would rather buy a motion controller.
    How about the question on how fast the smooth stepper sends signals (up to 4 MHz) what does that mean...up to? and why would you need that speed?

    I have been doing a lot of reading, but having some trouble finding some of my answers. I know some of these questions don't matter, but I am curious.

    Last edited by dmh13433; 05-23-2017 at 09:07 AM.


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    Default Re: motion controllers

    I don't need 1,500 RPM speed, but I'll take it. I will go as fast as I can get it. I don't need much torque to do the task. I just bought the kit I have now because I wanted to play with something, and this was easy and cheap. I'm learning now, I should have done some research first. I thought bigger was going to be better.


    Quote Originally Posted by JUGETEK-Rony View Post
    We are stepper motor , driver and controller manufacture in China, may be I can provide some helpful information to you.
    From your message, the stepper motor you have is NEMA 34, for this size stepper motor, the max speed a Chinese factory can do is about 1500rpm, but Nanotec stepper may reach 2000rpm.
    But we almost never up speed to 1500rpm, right?
    Also, you must have speed-toque curve, as you can see, it has stepper driver/current and microstep on the top of the curve, why? it because the chagnge of the toque is related to stepper driver, microstep and currrent.
    You must to know clearly about how much speed and toque yo do need before choose a correct stepper motor,

    For more question, you can contact my email : rony@jugetek.com
    I do not check forums message often.




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    Default Re: motion controllers

    I use UCCNC with their UC300ETH motion controller.

    I'd never seen that AudioOhms motion controller before yesterday.

    The Smoothstepper is easily the most popular Mach3 motion controller.
    The pulse rate is configurable, with a max of 4Mhz. Servo drives are the only drives that could possibly deal with that high of a pulse rate. If you set it to 4Mhz, most stepper drives would not even work. For a stepper application all you really need is somewhere in the 100Khz range.

    Gerry

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    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
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    Default Re: motion controllers

    Quote Originally Posted by dmh13433 View Post
    I haven't had a parallel port on any computers for probably 15 years

    is the 1/2 and 1/4 stepping from the drives? how do I do that?
    I tried all the different combinations on the drive for pulse/rev table. is that what you mean?
    "I haven't had a parallel port on any computers for probably 15 years"

    Could be a sign of imprudence, certainly not something to boast about in the CNC world. The demise of parallel port (PP) use in the CNC world is being somewhat orchestrated IMO, similar to that of BASIC in the programming world during the '80s. Bill Gates was the last holdout on the competence and value of structured BASIC programming but eventually had to give in to the forces behind C, Pascal and others.

    A computer does not have to come with a PP in order to use one and Mach3 Demo has supported PP use, up to 100KHz , for at least the last 8 years IIRC. During that time their literature states the following regarding the Demo version;

    •Kernel Frequency locked at 25kHz (only applicable if using the parallel port driver)

    This was only true before around 2008, not after, so why is this note still there? Also, I gather that one has to pay extra to use PPs with Mach4. LCNC also supports PP use.

    Long story short, any computer with PCI slots will support cheap PP boards like this;

    SYBA Model SD-PCI-1P PCI to Parallel Port Card Add-On Card-Newegg.com

    Currently, feature rich PP breakout boards from China are cheaper than ever, like this;

    Upgraded 5 Axis CNC Interface Adapter Breakout Board For Stepper Motor Driver Mach3 + USB Cable - Newegg.com

    Even cheaper on Ebay.



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    Default Re: motion controllers

    "Currently, feature rich PP breakout boards from China are cheaper than ever, like this;

    https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...B&gclsrc=aw.ds

    Even cheaper on Ebay."

    Thanks for the History. I guess I shouldn't have admitted I didn't have a PP. all I have is a laptop.
    So this CNC breakout board for under $10 will do the same thing a parallel port will? what does the smooth stepper have that this Chinese breakout board doesn't have? why would anyone pay $200 for a smooth stepper when you can get this for under $10?



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    Default Re: motion controllers

    So this CNC breakout board for under $10 will do the same thing a parallel port will?
    No, this is a breakout board that plugs into the parallel port, and gives you screw terminal connections. The smooth stepper is a motion controller, that generates the step and direction pulses in hardware, rather than having the PC do it. A Smoothstepper also provides 3 parallel ports worth of inputs and outputs.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
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    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
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    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Default Re: motion controllers

    hey guys
    I just giving an update on my project. thanks to Gerry for recommending a Leadshine AM882, with the smooth stepper, I am getting about 1,500 RPM's from the big NEMA34 motors I bought on Ebay. I get the same max speed on the $80 motors I got from Automation ............ NEMA34 Stepper Motor – 906 oz in 6.1A Dual Shaft (KL34H295-43-8B)

    now that I have the speed, I can start building the machine.



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    Default Re: motion controllers

    update on my project.
    I got everything built except a box to hold power supply, and drivers.
    Mach 3 is running the motors at 1,300RPM
    Here is a link to an archery forum showing it, and a link to youtube video.

    String Jig/Winder



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