NEW FREE MACH 3 proffessional screenset

[dharmic]

He's making a free screen. So I think it would be quite popular if it fills a current need.

cheers, Ian

And there I go again, not quite reading it properly and making ASSes out of U and ME.

[YaraAuto]

UCCNC has no ability to customize interface (buttons position, colors etc.) Am I right?

[A_Camera]

UCCNC has no ability to customize interface (buttons position, colors etc.) Am I right?

No, you are wrong. It has a built in screen editor as well.

[A_Camera]

Get a UC300ETH or UC400ETH with the ethernet interface and if you have some extra get the UCCNC, it worths the little extra money as its superior to mach3.

Yes and no. Better in many aspects but not superior in everything. It is a good alternative.

[A_Camera]

Once again. I've never seen any touchpads, roller ball etc. pointing devices except of tactile keyboards on metalworking equipment (mills, lathes ...).

Really? Maybe you haven't looked well enough or have not been around in any modern workshop lately.

I saw many woodworking machines (Italian, China...) which have mouse and standard keyboards. I don't know how long do they work in hard conditions but, I think, not very much.

How long things last depends on the quality and the user. Wood or metal working machines, no real big difference in this aspect, what matters is the quality should match the environment.

Besides, it is very dangerous to operate CNC system with pointing device: you have to be able to change feed and spindle speed very fast, to on/off spindle, lock/release tool. All these operations must be made with tactile effect (keys). Of course, some rarely used functions can be operated with touchscreen or smth else, but the main must be done only with keys.

Touch screen, mouse, alpha keyboard, no tactile buttons.

No, all operations must NOT be made by tactile switches, you can also use touch screens and soft touch keys, but if safety is you concern you better use high grade, industry quality products. Anyway, I am not saying you MUST use mouse, I am saying that they CAN be used in any environment, CNC and machining is no exception. There are ALTERNATIVES to mouse, like a touchpad, or a touch screen, both are VERY common in industrial environments.

By the way, ALL professional CNC systems (FANUC, HAAS, SIEMENS) have standard keyboards with special keys for fast operations.

What is a "standard keyboard" for you? For me it is QWERTY.



Touchscreen, alpha keyboard... not very ergonomic design, not very "standard keyboard" but I guess it works. There are also QWERTY keyboard alternatives... which is I guess aimed at people who grew up with computers and learned to type.

unfortunately, in standard screenset even documented hotkey (Alt+L) "Load file" doesnt work. (Maybe only in my MACH3 ?)

True, this is irritating. Never the less, if you want to use dedicated buttons you can do that, as well as you can use a touch screen, so there are plenty alternatives.

Anyway, I thought you wanted to make a free screenset to Mach3. Have you changed your mind and now want to compete against Siemens on the professional market? That will be hard...

[ger21]

Making Mach3 screens that look like industrial controls imo don't really work very well, even though they may look cool. Mainly because the industrial control is a big keyboard, and the Mach3 version is basically a picture of a keyboard. There's also the issue of functionality. An industrial control has all those buttons because it needs them. Does Mach3 have all the functionality that those controls do?
Also consider that most mach3 users have very different needs than those using a Siemens controller.
There have been other attempts at this, and you can probably find them on the Machsupport forum. I don't think any have gained widescreen popularity.

In my world, that of industrial routers (typically Italian), proprietary controls, keyboard and mice are commonplace. Yes, dust will eventually break the keyboard and mouse after 5 years or so. So you throw them away, and replace them from the stack of old ones that you are no longer using.

[YaraAuto]

Really? Maybe you haven't looked well enough or have not been around in any modern workshop lately.

Touch screen, mouse, alpha keyboard, no tactile buttons.

What is a "standard keyboard" for you? For me it is QWERTY.

Anyway, I thought you wanted to make a free screenset to Mach3. Have you changed your mind and now want to compete against Siemens on the professional market? That will be hard...

Maybe modern CNC systems have touchscreen. I really didn't search at this direction. Just I saw dirty operator's hands and imagined how dirty will be touchscreen if they try to use it.

Saying "tactile key" I mean a key, which makes "click" and your finger feel it. It can be flat or slightly risen. I saw panels, which doesn't have tactile effect. When you press the key, you don't feel it and only changes on screen can give you feedback. It is very uncomfortable.

Yeah, I'm old school engineer and accustomed to use keys as a main input device. I don't like smartphone for it's touchscreen (but use it). And, yes, I use WINDOWS hotkeys Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V, Alt+TAB because it is faster than mouse targeting. I thought that mouse independant interface will be more useful. It's only my opinion but I'm sure there are a lot of users with the same vision.

In truth, I'm afraid that I can't copy all functions because MACH3 doesn't have them. Maybe only some base. I don't want to compete with SIEMENS, it is impossible. Just fill the gap in screensets, which have not so colorful and tedious interface.

[vmax549]

Here is another example, I work alot in the mill lathe Plasma cutter fields. They can go through mice 2-3 per year especially plasma machines. Track balls are OUT teh y tend to creap with vibration and teh heavy side of the ball will always end up DOWN and that normally puts teh mouse pointer OFF teh screen. Touch screens can be cantankerous with coolants and plasma dust and when they fail you are dead in the water for control purposes. With a normal monitor I have been known to steal one from the office and strap it to the machine to keep production going.

The best combination so far that I have found it a screenset that has all the basic visual function on screen and I use an industrial grade ( waterproof) keyboard Querty that has 24 function keys F1 -F24. These keyboards last decades not years. They also have a jogstick IF you need a mouse function OR you can call up teh Jog mouse function that MS uses it does work well just a touch clunky .

In testing controls with operators a simple type control that I described always wins hands down for machine control productivity. You might think a Mouse system works great BUT it does not for production purposes. You get used to a mouse and never realise teh time you waste hunting teh mouse and pointer and selecting a function (;-) We have ran these test for many years and the average results stay the same. Year after year.

Even teh Game boy generation adapts very quickly in the work place. As long as you do not mention it is bacically the old DOS method of PC control( Tabbing) (;-) LOL

Screens colors ALSO play a big part in productivity. with White on Blue being one of the best combinations to use. That depends on teh operators as a lot of MALES are color deficeint in RED / GREEN hues. Being able to change those colors CAN be a big help in teh work place.

This comes from MANY years standing in front of a machine 16 hrs a day making parts. And if you diod not make parts you did not eat.

BUT to each his own (;-)

(;-) TP

[A_Camera]

Maybe modern CNC systems have touchscreen. I really didn't search at this direction. Just I saw dirty operator's hands and imagined how dirty will be touchscreen if they try to use it.

Like I said... you haven't seen a modern workshop... It's NOT like it was 40 years ago, even if some believe that it is. Mouses, touch pads, touch screens... you name it, they are here to stay. Chose whatever suits your needs, there are many alternatives. Industrial quality touch screens have been around for a long time, I have a few 10" ones in my own "electronics garbage box" just laying around, but of course 10" today is not much to write home about.

Saying "tactile key" I mean a key, which makes "click" and your finger feel it. It can be flat or slightly risen. I saw panels, which doesn't have tactile effect. When you press the key, you don't feel it and only changes on screen can give you feedback. It is very uncomfortable.

I know what tactile means...

But even touch buttons (not tactile) are common. Those are easy to keep clean and they have also been around for at least 30 years. A simple "beep" gives you the synthetic tactile information.

Yeah, I'm old school engineer and accustomed to use keys as a main input device. I don't like smartphone for it's touchscreen (but use it). And, yes, I use WINDOWS hotkeys Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V, Alt+TAB because it is faster than mouse targeting. I thought that mouse independant interface will be more useful. It's only my opinion but I'm sure there are a lot of users with the same vision.

OK, regardless of how old you are and what kind of engineer you call yourself, but if you don't like touch screens, you don't like mouse, you don't like mouse pad, you don't like tracker balls (remember, there are different quality even in that department), you don't like ANY pointing device than you will fail. I don't think there is ANY industrial controller made by Siemens or any other modern manufacturer which does not use some sort of pointing device. As for which is faster, mouse or buttons... even this depends on the interface, the application and what you want to do. Also, I NEVER said you need to use mouse, that's just an alternative, but you need some sort of pointing device, that's for sure. I also NEVER said not to use real buttons, but you can't use one dedicated button for every function because that would demand a HUGE panel which would be totally impossible to orient on and would be TOTALLY useless. There is a limit to how many buttons human brains can handle, and it is way more ergonomic and safe if the interface is simpler than more complicated. That's why touch screens are great, you can easily adjust button functions, change the text of the buttons so that they reflect the functions and provide only the necessary information to the user, not everything.

I am also "old school engineer" (whatever that means to you), 1973 class, but I have nothing against smart phones, touch screens, mouse, touch pads, computers and modern functions if they are useful. In fact, what I'd hate most is trillions of buttons, tactile or otherwise, so if I'd EVER make a screen set I'd make it simpler, not more complicated with a huge number of buttons. In fact, that's what I like in UCCNC, the default screen set is pretty simple and clean compared with Mach3, yet even that can be cleaned up more.

In truth, I'm afraid that I can't copy all functions because MACH3 doesn't have them. Maybe only some base. I don't want to compete with SIEMENS, it is impossible. Just fill the gap in screensets, which have not so colorful and tedious interface.

Actually, I think you are not very clear about about your intentions. Is it just a screen set you want to make or want to copy a Siemens control panel and SIMULATE the buttons? Because if you want to simulate the buttons then you need a HUGE screen, and if you want to avoid mouse then you need a HUGE touch screen, and those are expensive. Honestly, I don't know any more what you want to do. In your OP you wrote about Mach3 screen set, then you discuss Siemens panels. Anyway, in my opinion Mach3 is dead. Of course, it is still used by many people (myself included) but all those who still use it are familiar with it as it is, or they already have an alternative screen set or made the modifications they wanted by now. I think it is a waste of effort but of course, it is you time, so it is up to you.

[YaraAuto]

Absolutely agree with vmax549!!! In each word. And I feel the war has already began 😊.
I think it is time to move from words to deeds.

[daniellyall]

Nuts
A bear bones screen set would be good with no mouse, tabs all the way

[vmax549]

Teh main problem you will run into is Most DIY controll packages use open GL to do teh screensets. Open GL does NOT have a tabbing feature you as teh programer have to Create that effect. The users do NOT have access to that part of the screen writing. The option is you have to use other processes to be able to tab through dros button,etc to run Mouse free.

And that tells me that none of them have spent much time standing in front of a control and having make a living with CNC. Seconds add up to minutes that add up to hours and that lost time ends up coming out of YOUR pocket/profit margin.

I have done it in Mach3 Mach4 and USCNC. UCCNC being the easiest to work with and MACH4 being a nightmare to work with as they went out of their way to remove any tabbing processes it seems. I had talked to Brian and he was not receptive at all to a tabbed mouseless screenset. It was basically mouse or nothing.

Been there done that, Have the tee shirt, hat and coffee cup (;-)

Your Mileage may vary due to local conditions (;-) LOL

(;-) TP

[A_Camera]

...and who exactly is saying that you can't run mouse free?

[daniellyall]

A_Camera, terry tried that with M4 it was a nightmare that turned into a flame war and Brian came across as he did not wont that feature in M4.

[ger21]

You can rather easily create a mouseless screen, but for it to be usable, it requires both a hardware and software solution, as you'd need some type of keypad or buttons to handle some of the functions.
As Terry mentioned earlier, the use of F keys can be used, but for maximum usability, some additional software features would be required.

I've used a very easy to use keyboard only control on an old DOS based router, that had a membrane keyboard built into the control box. On screen buttons corresponded to the function keys.
The different pages of the screen used the same function keys, though. You can't currently do this with the software we're using, as the hotkey assignments would need to change with the screen pages.

My opinion? If you need the features of a $1000 control, then buy one. There are plenty of all in one controllers available that don't even need a PC, let alone a mouse. If that's what you need, buy one.

[Torchhead]

Mach3 is a dying program. It hasn't been updated in 5 years, and is inferior to most of it's current competition.

"Never buy oats for a dead horse"

TOMcaudle
www.CandCNC.com
LINUX/CommandCNC for plasmas and routing. Better/Faster/Cheaper

[YaraAuto]

You can rather easily create a mouseless screen, but for it to be usable, it requires both a hardware and software solution, as you'd need some type of keypad or buttons to handle some of the functions.
As Terry mentioned earlier, the use of F keys can be used, but for maximum usability, some additional software features would be required.

My idea is to use Fkeys, as you said. + numpad keys. The same keys will have different functions depending of current mode. How to make it? Maybe VB will help me.
As for additional keypad, I have some ideas because I'm a designer of electronic devices. So everything is possible. So now I'm sure that the idea is not bad and many people are interested. I think it is the reason to try.

[vmax549]

Gerry I think you are missing the point with your comment IF you need a $1000 solution then buy one. This was a discussion on how to get teh existing controls to do a simple DOS like functions through a screenset. IF i wanted a REAL CNC solution then yes I would simply buy one and get it over and done with. But that was not the point.

UCCNC comes close on its own with teh advent of teh Keyboard mouse functions that Balazs created for us. I can also make a more efficeint mouseless access to teh DROs with teh use of a macro wizard . It pops up a window with all teh RUN screens DROs ( there is only 5-6 that you really need to access on a normal basis) and then I simply tab to teh one I want and input teh DRO value then hit enter. Then the popup windows closes and you are back to a normal screen.

You never need to do that with a Gcode program running so it takes up little to no more resources.

I honestly do not see teh need to duplicate Fkeys with different functions for different screens . There are MORE than enough key combinations to do everything from a standard keyboard layout . Unless I have missed something. (;-)


Just a thought, (;-) TP

Just a thought , (;-) TP

[vmax549]

Just a note I have worked out another solution for UCCNC that you can run teh entire Run page from teh keyboard without a mouse and NO macro wizards involved and NOT have to use teh Keyboard Mouse feature. Tabbing would still be teh BEST way but it is easily doable without. You can also save a ton of screen space if you wanted to by going mouseless.

(;-) TP

[mactec54]

My idea is to use Fkeys, as you said. + numpad keys. The same keys will have different functions depending of current mode. How to make it? Maybe VB will help me.
As for additional keypad, I have some ideas because I'm a designer of electronic devices. So everything is possible. So now I'm sure that the idea is not bad and many people are interested. I think it is the reason to try.

Softservo have been doing it this way for 15 years, with there control, here is there very first computer they did, they used F keys do all the work, some have more than one function