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  1. #41
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    Default Re: mach 3 cv mode stalling

    i've also discovered why EMC2 was not doing contouring properly and now have it behaving perfectly well...

    so while id prefer mach for its nice ui and features, I can do without it. so yeah, mach4 better be perfection out of the gate for me to look at it.



  2. #42
    Member BanduraMaker's Avatar
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    Default Re: mach 3 cv mode stalling

    I know this is an old thread but I thought I'd throw this out there. I've finally solved my Mach 3 CV mode bug issues - by switching to UCCNC software with a UC100. I haven't done the switch 100% yet because I still need to write the tool change macros (I'm using Ger's screen sets on Mach 3) but in my initial tests, the UCCNC CV trajectory planner is in another league compared to Mach 3

    I've just launched a guitar neck product line and Mach 3 was giving me crazy headaches. I had to slow the acceleration on my long axis to 23 (from 40) and drop my top speed a little. I also dropped the feed rates in my CAM software as well. In the process, I got really bad corner rounding and had to drop my lookahead down to 10 lines to get good looking parts. In the end, I could get a good part in about 1:04 (one hour, four minutes). Even then, I could still see some corner rounding artifacts but it's only because I'm pretty picky. I then ran some other simpler parts and the finish was unacceptable. I had bought a UC100 earlier hoping it would solve the problems but the issue is in the CV planner so it didn't help.

    There was a bug in the UCCNC software but, the UCCNC guys fixed it in exactly 2 days. My first run of the guitar neck, running the exact same code ran in :47 minutes. The machine ran much more smoothly. I increased my acceleration up to 60 and it's been perfectly reliable in all the test runs I've done.

    Bye bye mach 3.

    Not that I have any plans on going back to Mach but, does anyone know if Artsoft has addressed this issue in Mach4? I ask because I'm getting a lot of questions regarding this.

    p.s., the UCCNC guys have also seen this bug in Mach3 and they told me that according to their measurements, mach3 can increase the accel/decel rates by up to 100% when in CV mode so the best way to avoid this problem if you're running Mach is to decrease your accels by about 50%.

    -Andy B.
    http://www.birkonium.com CNC for Luthiers and Industry http://banduramaker.blogspot.com


  3. #43
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    Default Re: mach 3 cv mode stalling

    The issue might be old but i still have to work around it every day. I think ill have a look at uccnc aswell :/

    I really hope that mach4 has a new trajectory planner available !



  4. #44
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    Default Re: mach 3 cv mode stalling

    The next major release version of linuxcnc has a better trajectory planner. The previous was essentially a 1 segment look ahead. This works fine for a lot of things but not for very short line/arc segment gcode programs (where you want to keep the velocity high). The new trajectory planner has N-lookahead and I am very excited about it.

    Also linuxcnc gives you precise path following control.

    G64Px.xxxQx.xxx

    P is how far from the programmed path the machine can deviate (to keep speed up)
    Q is naive cam detector which can combine segments into longer segments if the deviate less than x.xxx. (with the new TP you can keep this a pretty small value (even 0) depending on how short the segments are)

    I don't understand the corner rounding issues - If I want linuxcnc to follow the path within .005" or maybe .001" that is what it will do.

    sam



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    Default Re: mach 3 cv mode stalling

    The corner rounding issue is with mach 3 because it doesn't have a maximum deviation setting. You basically have to play with the lookahead and a few other parameters to get the results you like. To summarize: it's an absolute garbage trajectory planner.

    The UCCNC planner has 5 parameters for the CV mode. I don't fully understand all of them but they're more or less the same as what you described in EMC but with a little more flexibility. The complete descriptions can be found in the UCCNC documentation.

    My guitar neck code is about 120,000 lines of G-code, most of which is really short segments and the UCCNC TP does a bang up job on handling it. Much much smoother than Mach 3.

    I've got one big project I have to get out the door but as soon as I'm done with that, I'm getting to work on those tool change macros I need so I'll never have to use Mach 3 again.

    Can't wait!

    -Andy B.
    http://www.birkonium.com CNC for Luthiers and Industry http://banduramaker.blogspot.com


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    Default Re: mach 3 cv mode stalling

    Quote Originally Posted by BanduraMaker View Post
    The corner rounding issue is with mach 3 because it doesn't have a maximum deviation setting.
    it does absolutely have a maximum deviation setting as well as a maximum angle. its broken, but its actually a decent trajectory planner otherwise. ive never had any corner rounding issues.

    uccnc looks interesting, but I don't really want to spend more money on a hardware and software solution unless its vastly better in ever way.



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    Default Re: mach 3 cv mode stalling

    Boy, are you going to get the hornets nest upset !

    Most people who have left that control camp immediately realized the control they had was a clunk. Sure, it was cheap, and it did make things move around... when uranus was aligned with pluto.

    How do you like the interface ? Can you change some of the motion settings in the middle of a job ?

    Anything you hate about the interface ?

    Make sure you keep updating us on your success. We have never had enough people sharing the DIFFERENCES between control programs for people to get to the brass tacks of things and what might actually work better for them.


    Edit: Just noticed that UCCNC's site too has foreign dollar amounts, which make US buyers move on faster than they maybe should.

    Can you relate how much this "system" costs in US dollars ? And, if you have been a buyer of their product, perhaps you want to tell them that they could increase sales just by making it LOOK like they entertain overseas sales.

    Chris L


  8. #48
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    Default Re: mach 3 cv mode stalling

    Quote Originally Posted by datac View Post
    Make sure you keep updating us on your success. We have never had enough people sharing the DIFFERENCES between control programs for people to get to the brass tacks of things and what might actually work better for them.
    Indeed. I actually bought a second machine just like mine (but slightly larger 30x48) that has a Kflop/Kstep/KmotionCNC setup on it so I'll be able to compare Mach 3, UCCNC and Kflop/Kmotion. I plan on making videos

    Edit: Just noticed that UCCNC's site too has foreign dollar amounts, which make US buyers move on faster than they maybe should.

    Can you relate how much this "system" costs in US dollars ? And, if you have been a buyer of their product, perhaps you want to tell them that they could increase sales just by making it LOOK like they entertain overseas sales.
    They sell in the U.S. through distributors - CNC4PC and Automation Technologies are their U.S. distributors. The UC100+UCCNC is about $190...And it is vastly superior to Mach 3

    -Andy B.
    http://www.birkonium.com CNC for Luthiers and Industry http://banduramaker.blogspot.com


  9. #49
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    Default Re: mach 3 cv mode stalling

    Quote Originally Posted by ihavenofish View Post
    it does absolutely have a maximum deviation setting as well as a maximum angle. its broken, but its actually a decent trajectory planner otherwise. ive never had any corner rounding issues.

    uccnc looks interesting, but I don't really want to spend more money on a hardware and software solution unless its vastly better in ever way.
    If Mach 3 has a deviation setting, its interface is extremely cryptic. With UCCNC (and EMC as I understand it) you can set the maximum deviation IN UNITS!!! e.g., no more than .001" deviation, which is by the way what I have UCCNC set at. I ran a test (in wood) running .001", .0001" and .0005" deviation and even with .001" deviation, I got better results than mach3 with a faster cycle time to boot.

    When I say corner rounding, I mean in both 2D and 3D, primarily in the Z-direction. 2D corner rounding is easy to fix using the exact stop on > angle command. The 3D 'corner rounding' is actually just inconsistent gouging sometimes. Whatever you want to call it, it leads to ruined parts or at least parts that don't meet my QC standards. I've attached a picture to illustrate

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails mach 3 cv mode stalling-gouging-jpg  
    -Andy B.
    http://www.birkonium.com CNC for Luthiers and Industry http://banduramaker.blogspot.com


  10. #50
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    Default Re: mach 3 cv mode stalling

    odd. ive never had anything like that before in mach3. there is an angle setting and a distance setting in mach.

    in any case, we know it broken, and not being fixed any time soon, so we can just move on.

    Im looking at an industrial solution now. trying to see if we can get the price to a level that's not outrageous.



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    Default Re: mach 3 cv mode stalling

    I did experience exactly the same problems with mach 3 as bandura maker did, i lost a lot of molds / Tools to it and especially in the beginning when i couldnt figure out what was happening it was a major pita.

    But even when it works "correctly" the output deviates a lot from the original drawing, and i never figured out how to get it done properly with mach3.

    As soon as theres a better viable solution ill switch in an instant an i will reroute all of my moulds, right now im working around it by adding rubber to set of the deviations to the mold, far from ideal.

    I really want to try UCcnc aswell and share my opinions on it, but as of now it lacks two Major functionalitys for my everyday needs:

    Proper Axis slaving / end switch support: Many of us are running Gantry style machines with two steppers for the long Axis, these gantrys are supported by Mach with individual end switches to align the gantry, UCcnc lacks this option, apparantly it can slave an axis but it is unable to home it to two switches.

    Xbox controller, i swear the day im using my cnc without it will not come.

    I did talk to one of the UCcnc Guys though and from what i can tell adding two stepper Gantrys was just an oversight and will hopefully be implemented later on.
    For Xbox controller it might just take a bit longer or somebody external to write a Plugin.



  12. #52
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    Default Re: mach 3 cv mode stalling

    I downloaded the demo of UCCNC the other day, and sent off a list of questions to the developers.
    It is a new product, and it's early in it's development. From what I was told, it should eventually be comparable to Mach3 in features. Most of the features appear to be developed to be very similar to Mach3, so the transition should be very easy.
    I wasn't aware of the lack of auto-squaring during homing. I'll send them an e-mail today and mention that this is a very important feature for router users, and should be added as soon as possible.

    They still need to add a plugin interface, but it's on their list.

    It currently only works with the UC100, but a UC300 compatible version should be available soon. I'll probably be getting a UC300 soon and will start playing with the interface and macro's.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Default Re: mach 3 cv mode stalling

    Oh ure on the UCcnc Hype Train aswell Ger !
    Where can i preorder your Screenset ?

    I think this thread can be pretty much closed- the final conclusion is: Mach 3s CV code will never be fixed.

    Maybe we should start a thread specifically regarding the trajectory Code on the UCcnc subforum, to gather all experiences together.

    Bandura Maker, could you take a video of UCcnc running 3D code ?

    As i said unfortulately i cant really add to the discussion until auto squaring is implemented.



  14. #54
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    Default Re: mach 3 cv mode stalling

    Oh ure on the UCcnc Hype Train aswell Ger !
    Where can i preorder your Screenset ?
    Before I get on the train, I need to make sure that all the features I'll need will be added.
    I'll be going to Andy's house in the next few weeks to watch his machine run in person, to see the difference.

    There is no UCCNC screen designer, but I've already started figuring it out.

    I do have a Mach4 license already, so if a Mach4 plugin is being worked on for the UC300, I'll be buying one right away so I can eventually try both systems.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  15. #55
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    Default Re: mach 3 cv mode stalling

    Quote Originally Posted by lenne0815 View Post
    Bandura Maker, could you take a video of UCcnc running 3D code ?
    .
    I can even do one better - I'll make a video of Mach 3 running 3D code with the settings I needed for reliability and then with UCCNC with those settings. I've done some test cuts with UCCNC and found some reasonable settings with it.

    -Andy B.
    http://www.birkonium.com CNC for Luthiers and Industry http://banduramaker.blogspot.com


  16. #56
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    Default Re: mach 3 cv mode stalling

    I really want to try UCcnc aswell and share my opinions on it, but as of now it lacks two Major functionalitys for my everyday needs:

    Proper Axis slaving / end switch support: Many of us are running Gantry style machines with two steppers for the long Axis, these gantrys are supported by Mach with individual end switches to align the gantry, UCcnc lacks this option, apparantly it can slave an axis but it is unable to home it to two switches.
    I just received an email from CNC Drive. He said that he was mistaken, and that UCCNC does indeed support auto squaring to two switches while homing.
    They'll also be adding a swapaxis() command, which is the other feature I'll need.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  17. #57
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    Default Re: mach 3 cv mode stalling

    Here's a quick and dirty video comparing Mach 3 to UCCNC.



    Most of the important stuff I covered in the video either by speaking or in text but feel free to ask any questions you may have.

    p.s. I did play with the distance tolerance in Mach 3 in the past and with small settings, like .001 or whatever, the machine makes really cool sounds but it slows to a crawl. The test code I'm running in the video would easily take several hours to complete with a low distance tolerance CV setting

    Last edited by BanduraMaker; 01-19-2015 at 10:52 PM.
    -Andy B.
    http://www.birkonium.com CNC for Luthiers and Industry http://banduramaker.blogspot.com


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