Need Help! New CNC'er - Mach 3 REF ALL HOME gone bonkers!


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    Default New CNC'er - Mach 3 REF ALL HOME gone bonkers!

    Hello, I'm a Cabinetmaker trying to incorporate CNC into my woodwork and very new to CNC so please forgive my ignorance.

    I don't usually post as I usually find the answer - especially when it comes to fixing computers. However I'm at a loss, I'm by no stretch of the imagination an engineer and a lot of CNC talk may as well be Martian.

    I purchased a CNC A4 Router with the very basic training and the whole setup - Laptop (capable of running Mach 3) and Vcarve Pro. The laptop was already setup with Mach 3 and the settings correct for the machine.

    On the training day I was advised that when loading the gcode the tool is to be moved to a reference point (say the centre of the project) and then zero'd out in the coord's along with the soft limits button depressed (highlighted green). When the project is finished or Mach3 shut down - the next time you start up you can press ref all home and the tool will go back to it's machine position and the CNC bed/laptop will know where the tool is in space. I hope that made sense?

    For the last week I have been getting to grips with 3D work and the in's and out's of Vcarve Pro. A couple of days ago I decided to load a model and begin on my first project. But. somewhere along the way I have gone and messed the settings up. Also, I didn't make a back up of the original XML file which would have be fantastic and I wouldn't have wasted what feels like forever.

    I have being trying to get back to that once perfect state and I have trawled through forum upon forum but as stated previously I'm on a steep learning curve and it needs fresh eyes on the problem - but I don't know anyone with the knowledge of CNC.

    Please could a vet of CNC guide me in Lay terms what I need to do step by step to get ref all home to work and the X Y Z zero buttons highlighted back to green.

    Thank you in advance,

    P.S there are limit switches if that helps.

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    Default Re: New CNC'er - Mach 3 REF ALL HOME gone bonkers!

    Hi.....I'm a newbie too, probably the nubiest of nubes you can get.......so for what it's worth and my 2 pennnoths worth.....when you loaded up the software to get the machine to run you would have loaded the XML file to your hard drive too.....where it should still be.

    Go onto your C drive on your computer and look for the XML file, which should be resident there and wouldn't have been altered at all......as far as I know.....if it's there DON'T MESS WITH IT.

    You can't run your machine if the XML file wasn't there originally, so you wouldn't have gone into it and messed with the program..

    AFAIK....the settings for Mach 3.....that you can set-up for your machine....... are in the Mach 3 config and you can set the parameters there.

    BTW.....the home position on a CNC router is at the bottom left side of the table....that would be X0 Y0......but the work offset position is the starting point you set for your particular work piece with G54 and is X0 Y0..... and can be set on the corner of a vice or anywhere on a work piece that you want to machine from......Mach 3 doesn't know where the spindle is unless you set those points yourself.
    Ian.



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    Default Re: New CNC'er - Mach 3 REF ALL HOME gone bonkers!

    On the training day I was advised that when loading the gcode the tool is to be moved to a reference point (say the centre of the project) and then zero'd out in the coord's along with the soft limits button depressed (highlighted green). When the project is finished or Mach3 shut down - the next time you start up you can press ref all home and the tool will go back to it's machine position and the CNC bed/laptop will know where the tool is in space.
    There's a bit more to it than that.
    Does the machine have home switches?

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Default Re: New CNC'er - Mach 3 REF ALL HOME gone bonkers!

    Hi Handlewanker,

    I didn't load up the software, the laptop had it pre-installed and all the settings were setup ready for me to go, unfortunately, I think most of the time was spent on Vcarve, which I have the hang of.

    I only found out about the XML file after the settings were messed up and wasn't told about it until someone on here mentioned XML is your configuration settings. Making a copy of the XML file would have been brilliant had I known.

    Tom



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    Default Re: New CNC'er - Mach 3 REF ALL HOME gone bonkers!

    Hi Ger21,

    The machine does have home switches and I think because the settings were already set up to go, I was given the basics of how to operate, not how to react in this situation. But, I would have preferred to learn all this whilst my router was working.

    Also, when I hit REF ALL HOME, mach 3 will find the machine coord for z and then the Zero Z button will highlight green.

    Thanks again,

    Tom

    Last edited by Cabinetman17; 07-02-2017 at 07:11 AM.


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    Default Re: New CNC'er - Mach 3 REF ALL HOME gone bonkers!

    If the machine has home switches try to home each axis one at a time instead of Ref All Home, that way you can determine if each axis is setup correctly.

    Russ



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    Default Re: New CNC'er - Mach 3 REF ALL HOME gone bonkers!

    On the training day I was advised that when loading the gcode the tool is to be moved to a reference point (say the centre of the project) and then zero'd out in the coord's along with the soft limits button depressed (highlighted green). When the project is finished or Mach3 shut down - the next time you start up you can press ref all home and the tool will go back to it's machine position and the CNC bed/laptop will know where the tool is in space. I hope that made sense?
    I suggest you go to the Machsupport website, and watch the Mach3 video on Homing, Limits, and Offsets.

    Here's how you should be working.

    When you first turn on the machine, you should be Homing the machine with the Ref All button. This moves the machine to the home switches, and zeros the machine coordinates. This is important, because your Softlimits are referenced from this home position.

    When you program your g-code, you define an origin for the g-code, by specifying where the 0,0 position is. When you load your material, you move the machine to where the origin is supposed to be, and zero the X and Y axis. You also separately zero the Z axis, usually to the top of the material. What this does is set a G54 offset in Mach3, which shifts the origin from the machine coordinate origin to the work offset origin. If you need to go back to this offset origin in a later session, you can save this offset from the offsets page. Then, the next time you use Mach3, if your offsets are saves, you just use the Ref All, then Goto Zero, and it will take you back to the Work offset origin.

    Again, watch the video, it explains all of this in much more detail.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Default Re: New CNC'er - Mach 3 REF ALL HOME gone bonkers!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cabinetman17 View Post
    Hi Handlewanker,

    I didn't load up the software, the laptop had it pre-installed and all the settings were setup ready for me to go, unfortunately, I think most of the time was spent on Vcarve, which I have the hang of.

    I only found out about the XML file after the settings were messed up and wasn't told about it until someone on here mentioned XML is your configuration settings. Making a copy of the XML file would have been brilliant had I known.

    Tom
    Hi....someone correct me if I'm wrong.......afaik....... the XML file is specific for your machine and has the characteristics of the ball screw pitch and handing etc that has to run when Mach 3 puts out the G code pulses.

    Without knowing what the ball screw pitch or handing is..... any code will just make the wheels go round randomly (if ever)........also the XML file cannot be altered as it's in the C drive along with Mach 3........well mine is.

    I installed the XML file and JNC driver for my machine to my hard drive when the mill I bought arrived.
    Ian.



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    Default Re: New CNC'er - Mach 3 REF ALL HOME gone bonkers!

    Hi Ian,

    The XML file is sorted as the company have sent it via email and I have dropped that into my Mach 3 folder.

    The CNC works fine in regards to finding it's limit switches and I've inputted the limits via Motor home/Soft limits.

    It's when I move the machine onto the starting point of my work, I would then zero, begin Cycle start, the job would finish I then ref all home - this is when the Z axis will find its machine Zero and then highlight green, but the Y axis will carry on past its limit until I have to do an emergency stop.

    I have now managed to get the Z and X axis to go green on ref all home by changing the the button script where the Z zeros to machine coord first then X but Y carry's on past its limit.

    I'm nearly back to how I was - just that little nudge now



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    Default Re: New CNC'er - Mach 3 REF ALL HOME gone bonkers!

    also the XML file cannot be altered as it's in the C drive along with Mach 3
    You are wrong. The .xml file is the file that mach3 saves it's settings to. It's altered any time you change a Mach3 setting, and it's re-saved every time you close Mach3.


    but the Y axis will carry on past its limit until I have to do an emergency stop.

    Go to the diagnostics screen, activate the Y home switch, and see if the Y Home LED lights up.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Default Re: New CNC'er - Mach 3 REF ALL HOME gone bonkers!

    Ok, so the Y axis doesn't light up in diagnostics. But the LED on the Y axis does light up when X and Z reach their home.

    Also, X and Z light up in diagnostics when they reach their home.

    Hope that made sense.

    Last edited by Cabinetman17; 07-03-2017 at 07:23 AM.


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    Default Re: New CNC'er - Mach 3 REF ALL HOME gone bonkers!

    Go to Ports and Pins, Inputs, and see if the Y axis home switch is enabled.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Default Re: New CNC'er - Mach 3 REF ALL HOME gone bonkers!

    Check your ports and pins settings for each home switch. When the X, Z reach home the Y LED should not light up. Check each axis one at a time and test the home switch. Look at the Diagnostic Page and manually press the switches and make sure the correct LED lights for each axis as you test them one at a time. The Ports and Pins will show you which input is assigned to each axis.

    Russ



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    Default Re: New CNC'er - Mach 3 REF ALL HOME gone bonkers!

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    You are wrong. The .xml file is the file that mach3 saves it's settings to. It's altered any time you change a Mach3 setting, and it's re-saved every time you close Mach3.





    Go to the diagnostics screen, activate the Y home switch, and see if the Y Home LED lights up.
    Hi Ger....thanks for the enlightenment.....I Googled what an XML file is but it's way over my head.

    The only explanation I got from the vast amount of explanations on the 'Net was that an XML file is like an interpreter and presents the info from wherever so the controller can understand it and process it.

    This would suggest my machine only understands gibberish and the XML file interprets the gobbledegook from Mach3........it would explain why Mach 3 is able to change the XML file with fresh info and all things become bright and beautiful at switch on.

    Would I be right in saying that the XML file for a machine can be written in a number of standard formats but only one particular one will interpret the format Mach 3 uses when talking to a machine controller?

    That has to be something like the UN security council when a multi nation meeting is in hot debate.....maybe not.
    Ian.



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    Default Re: New CNC'er - Mach 3 REF ALL HOME gone bonkers!

    There's nothing magical or mystical about the Mach3 .xml file.
    It's just a simple file that stores all of Mach'3 settings. Think of it as nothing more than a simple text file, in a different format. When you close Mach3, all of your settings are written to the .xml file. And when you start Mach3, all of your settings are read from the .xml file, and loaded into mach3.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Default Re: New CNC'er - Mach 3 REF ALL HOME gone bonkers!

    Ger21 is correct the XML file just stores the setting you create when setting up Mach3. While XML can have code similar to what is used on websites, its best to think of it more in terms of a .h header files like you might find if you are a C programmer.

    Russ



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    Default Re: New CNC'er - Mach 3 REF ALL HOME gone bonkers!

    The XMl file is a simple text file that a committee has worked over - extensively. But there is some logic in it nonetheless.

    Let's say Mach3 wants to remember where the Diredtion signal for the X axis should go. This is defines thus:
    <Motor0DirPin>3</Motor0DirPin>
    Yep, it's on pin 3.

    Now, why one could not have a line simply saying 'Motor0DirPin = 3' - I do not know.

    To make things worse, an XML file does not use <CR><LF>. It is all one great greasy lump. This makes it very hard to read unless you have an XML-Reader.
    The problem with most XML-Readers is that they also try to make breakfast. They just dont DO simple. Sigh.

    Incidentally, if Mach3 crashes it may not finish writing out the XML file. That leads to all sorts of bother with a corrupt XML, and you need to go back a few versions in the \xml\backups folder. Fortunately, Mach3 writes a new XML backup every time it exits. So you may have literally HUNDREDS of 150 kByte backup files there. I clean them out every so often.

    Cheers
    Roger



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    Default Re: New CNC'er - Mach 3 REF ALL HOME gone bonkers!

    Gulp.....do I also have to "clean" out my XML file......I wouldn't know how or what to do.

    Is it resident on the C drive as a separate folder or within Mach 3?

    When I got my mill I had the JNC driver and the XML file for the machine as 2 separate files.

    Does the XML file get updated every time you work your CNC machine or only if you change some of the Mach 3 settings?

    What if I don't do any cleaning of the XML file ever......would that lead to a long boot up time or delays in actuating a command from Mach 3?

    Would it be feasible to think that with Mach 4 the XML file will be automatically updated and the previous information deleted so that an accumulation of old files doesn't happen?

    BTW, if I have a power out while the mill is running does this constitute a disaster with Mach 3 not doing the XML file update?.

    This is a real "could happen" scenario as I have one of those earth leakage safety devices fitted to my main power in board and occasionally it trips the mains....for no apparent reason.......I'm considering adding a UPS to the mill power input to enable a continuation if the power trips out.
    Ian.



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    Default Re: New CNC'er - Mach 3 REF ALL HOME gone bonkers!

    You don't do anything to the .xml file. Pretend you don't even know it exists.

    All it contains are the Mach3 settings, and they get overwritten every time you close Mach3.

    Mach3 makes backups in a separate folder, because the .xml files are known to become corrupt. You can delete these backups any time you want.

    Mach4 doesn't use .xml files. It uses an .ini file, which is a simple text file.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Default Re: New CNC'er - Mach 3 REF ALL HOME gone bonkers!

    do I also have to "clean" out my XML file......I wouldn't know how or what to do.
    You do not HAVE to. They are just text files taking up space.

    Is it resident on the C drive as a separate folder or within Mach 3?
    C:\Mach3\xmlbackups\

    Does the XML file get updated every time you work your CNC machine or only if you change some of the Mach 3 settings?
    Every time you exit, mostly. Config/Save Settings does it too.

    What if I don't do any cleaning of the XML file ever......would that lead to a long boot up time or delays in actuating a command from Mach 3?
    No effect at all. A minor amount of disk space is used.

    Would it be feasible to think that with Mach 4 the XML file ...
    No idea.

    Cheers
    Roger



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