Ubuntu/EMC2 Bootable Flash Drive

[123CNC]

Since my PC will be mounted within one of the machine's control boxes, I would like to mitigate any vibration troubles with a traditional hard drive. I'm attempting to install EMC2 on a flash drive and make it the boot device. There seems to be a few variables to success, including flash device, BIOS, and proper install of Ubuntu/Linux (grub). I was hoping someone might want to share their success story to help cut through the chase.

If I can, I would like to keep the old Dell currently installed with PCI and Mesa 5i20 boards and just find a hard drive/ flash drive work around. Unfortunately the Dell BIOS is too old, not compatible with flash memory as a boot option. Is there any one to make the Dell think the flash is a regular hard drive, e.g. an IDE to USB/ethernet or direct to flash/ cheap SS drive?

I will consider replacing the Dell, if someone has a sure fire PC/BIOS and flash device recommendation (and PCI slot to accept Mesa 5i20).

[samco]

I followed these directions using the emc2 live hardy cd..

http://www.ryancloke.com/ubuntu-804-...ve-usb-how-to/

seems to work ok..

sam

[cyclestart]

Originally Posted by 123CNC Unfortunately the Dell BIOS is too old, not compatible with flash memory as a boot option. Is there any one to make the Dell think the flash is a regular hard drive, e.g. an IDE to USB/ethernet or direct to flash/ cheap SS drive?

Wonder what the practical length limitations are on a regular hard drive ribbon cable? Would be a simple solution if it works.

I think the solution samco linked assumes ability to boot usb?

Edit/ A quick search shows IDE cables available at 36" but 18" recommended max. Another backyard mechanic idea shot down in flames

[123CNC]

cyclestart,

I considered the remote mount. I consulted with Dr. Google on the practical limit of IDE ribbon cable, 18 inches. I'm afraid that won't get me out of the cabinet, but will have to double check.

SAMCO's response is definitely part of my problem if I go the flash drive route. Proper install of Hardy Heron is one of the hurdles.

I'm still hoping someone might speak up about any success with Ubuntu 8.04, specific flash drive/device, and BIOS/PC make and model.

[Glennza]

How about using a compact flash card with an IDE adapter? The computer will just see it as another hard drive. Not sure how much space an EMC install takes, but I'm using this setup with DOS and TurboCNC and it works great. My system is dedicated to running the mill so it only needs a 16Mb card to hold everything.

How small can you make a Ubuntu/EMC install if you strip out everything that isn't needed as a controller (games, Open Office, browser, etc.)?

Glenn

[123CNC]

Before going to a new PC/BIOS, I thought I would try the IDE to CF adapter route and the aforementioned, Samco, Hardy install to USB flash.

Wow, what a long and arduous path to install Hardy on a USB. It seems ripe for someone to make a scripted program either in Linux or Windows to walk through all that. I guess my typing skills make me more prone to being a Windoze user. In the end I got no better or different results than doing a direct autoCD load to the flash (on a different PC, with compatible BIOS), it looked promising, boots, splash screen, user and password prompts, then hangs.

Initial attempts at IDE to CF just couldn't get me around the old DELL BIOS. There are are only 3 permissible drives/types allowed in the boot cycle, CDROM, HD-C, and floppy. One site recommended formatting the flash in the exact fashion of a known working HD-C, cylinders/sectors/tracks. Haven't tried that yet. Dropping out into ASH with error messages. So I tried the IDE-CF method in yet another, newer PC, and the Hardy AutoLoad CD wouldn't run, so I tried the older Dapper CD install. Dapper booted up and started the install, initially estimating 15 min. which later changed to 52 minutes, which later ended in an installer crash (tried it twice, maybe the second time? Nope, installer crash).

It is apparent that either I have a lot of crappy hardware, or it is random chance that the auto load CD will even work on a given system.

I'm back to seriously considering trying the max IDE ribbon cable length of 36", and keep cutting it down to see what length will work and if I'm outside the cabinet.

Another zoner PM'd me with success on a given motherboard/chipset (and should be same compatible BIOS) and where it might be obtained. I may have to look into it.

Right now its looking like I will have to abandon the old Dell, go with newer BIOS. Although even with newer BIOS, I'm not sure if it is hardware/format or Linux SW install issue.

I hate these little research projects, especially knowing others must have already blazed this trail. I'm hoping to reduce some variables to increase the chance of success.

[nonubbins]

There are are only 3 permissible drives/types allowed in the boot cycle, CDROM, HD-C, and floppy.

My computer doesn't boot USB either but I installed an OS on it and use a boot floppy with grub on it. That will get you out of the cabinet and no power cables to mess with. Also, could plug it into another computer to download your g-code to it. I'm starting to mess with EMC2 to see how small an install I can get and this gives me some ideas.

[gfc62]

Is anyone else able to use the Addonics IDE-CF adapter to boot Ubuntu?

The closest I've come was when the format failed when partitioning the CF card. Other times the installer didn't even see the card.

I'm using a somewhat odd motherboard (Intel D945GCLF Atom/ITX) and since the MB only has a single IDE connector I'm booting the install CD from a SATA CD drive. I'm going to try later this week with a more standard motherboard but wanted to see if anyone else is able to make this work.

[skullworks]

I used an older Quantum "Bigfoot" IDE HDD on my EMC2 ITX board test.

The latency times were not great, to almost dismal. Turns out the HDD was not 100% UATA/UDMA compliant and that caused timing issues with the kernal filesystem support. After swapping HDD with a newer Seagate Barracuda UATA - all was great, new tests yielded much better results.

If possible when trying to use a USB or IDE/CF you might consider loading everything into a ram drive on boot to improve timing.

[Ryobiguy]

If going with a flash based system doesn't work and you need to use a real HD to a) actually work and b) get good performance, then maybe you could build some kind of shock mount for the hard drive. I can't remember exactly, but HDs can take something like 7G when not running, and 3G while running.

If I were to quickly rig something up to absorb the vibration, I'd consider maybe some kind of bungee suspension (think musician touring rack mounts,) or maybe some kind of soft rubbery mounting pads.

But, it would be pretty sweet if the flash worked right and didn't cause any issues. Flash is catching up, but in this day and age it still seems odd that something so important as the computer's main storage is still a mechanical disk whizzing around.

-Matt

[gfc62]

For me using an electronic disk is about more than shock resistance. reduced heat, lower power consumption and increased reliability in a harsh environment are big draws.

[kudos]

Hi,

we where faced with the same problem as we two wanted to mount out control into the machines control cabnet where the old control was.


we used a solidstate hard drive, i know they are still pritty new and little rich on money but they do work very well and are as fast if not faster than a IDE/SATA drive depending make and which one you get etc. (as some are not true solidstate on ram chips and work like a USB pen which is not all too good acting as a hard drive in read and write situations)

we have just built a EMC control with a Mtron 2.5" solidstate drive, 32gb in size on SATA interface, so more than enough space for Gcode programs and EMC to sit on. as 2.5" is in a SATA setup works with any motherboard, they also do 3.5" in IDE and sata too, so u could use the IDE 3.5" (where the 2.5" will have laptop IDE connections)
i belive they do 100gb+ versions now also.

the bios sees them just like a normal hard drive so there is nothing different to do than one would do setting up a normal drive.

im not sure which takes longest, doing all the BIOS boot stuff, or booting into unbuntu now