Where is the best place to find EMC2 support?

[MrWild]

ohhhhhhhh, One question on speeds. Have you read the emc2 manual at all? Not a snide question at all so don't take it as one. If you are just playing with EMC2 and haven't wired your steppers or used the config wizard except to get a feel, I'm wondering if you used the latency test yet.

At the bottom of the first page in the config wizard, the one where you can name the machine at the top, there is a button for "test latency" (or something like that, I'm new too). Once you've an idea what your computer's latency is, you can fill in the base us period. Here's the thing. UNLESS YOU SET A DIFFERENT AMOUNT, EMC2 WILL USE THE GENERIC BASE PERIOD. It isn't that EMC2 won't go faster, it's that the set up when installed, is set at a speed even slow PIII machines will handle. I bet Mach has a pie in the sky new install speed that is just plain unrealistic without a new computer and guess what? The new super fast computers don't have parallel ports.

I doubt it isn't what Mach can actually do in the real world, it's how the program loads when new, but MOST Mach users need to set it MUCH slower and many don't go over 45,000.

ADDENDUM

I just checked my JGRO Dell Dimension 240 PIV 2.0ghz, and see my speed is 50000 hz. I've had it up to 70000 hz and the axis tested fine, but I slowed it down because I learned long ago everything doesn't need to be lead footed to the extreme. Even with 50000 hz, I can still rapid at 180ipm using 1/2-10 lead screws and a G540. I rapid at 90 though, because after all this is just a JGRO. Just how fast do water jets cut? I honestly don't think Mach will out shoot EMC2 when it comes to speed, just because Windows adds it's own glitchyness to the stew.

[HawkJET]

Here's the thing. UNLESS YOU SET A DIFFERENT AMOUNT, EMC2 WILL USE THE GENERIC BASE PERIOD. It isn't that EMC2 won't go faster, it's that the set up when installed

I did the latency test and replaced the default value with the result of that test.

I doubt it isn't what Mach can actually do in the real world, it's how the program loads when new, but MOST Mach users need to set it MUCH slower and many don't go over 45,000.

Mach3 loads with a default of 25kHz. I changed it to 100 and did a test (Mach3's equivalent to EMC2's latency).

I honestly don't think Mach will out shoot EMC2 when it comes to speed, just because Windows adds it's own glitchyness to the stew.

I am with you here. I don't know what was going on and I was quite surprised.

[lerman]

It seems that many of your complaints are related to an ignorance of linux. That isn't EMCs fault.

How easy do you think Mach would be to use if you had never seen windows before?

What is good for me (or you) isn't necessarily good for everyone.

Ken

[dertsap]

I honestly don't think Mach will out shoot EMC2 when it comes to speed, just because Windows adds it's own glitchyness to the stew.

i disagree , I used emc up to about 1 1/2 - 2 yrs ago , and when I built my last cnc emc couldn't push my motors anywhere near as fast as mach , I've had guys slam me and under assumption tell me that I didn't do things right . I knew exactly what i was doing and did a lot of reading and research , but the bottom line is the speeds that I was easily able to get thru mach would crash and freeze emc and the operating system .

[HawkJET]

It seems that many of your complaints are related to an ignorance of linux. That isn't EMCs fault.

I don't believe I have ever said that EMC is a bad program. I don't look for fault in a sense of something to blame. I am merely assessing my needs and what seems to be provided by the EMC community and the Mach community.

The problems I ran into are certainly RELATED to my ignorance. But the true source of my frustration is the level of support available within easy reach and the attitude of those that might provide that support.

So I am ignorant... how do I rectify that??? Well, with Mach, I go to the website and watch video tutorials. With EMC, I am directed to various web sites with gobs and gobs of information I don't yet need (nor understand), and have to sift through, only to glean some small relevant tidbit. Then I get to go to another place and do the same. After more than a week of this, I got fed up.

Then in two hours (including installing the windows OS) I had Mach3 running to a place far more advanced than when I spent that week with EMC.

I'M SURE EMC2 IS A GREAT PROGRAM! I just can't get there from here and I'm not interested in the, onerous process. I don't make that out to be anybody's FAULT. It is just an observation of what is available and what I'm after. I'm not bitter, and I wish all EMC users the best. I would not be surprised if at some point I have a machine running EMC2. It just isn't right now.

[chester88]

HawkJet:

Thanks for taking time to relay the problems you faced.
EMC is really suited well for people who like to tinker.
It's alot more user friendly then it was even a couple of years ago, but still has a ways to go.

just to answer some of your questions ( if someone was reading along ):

- EMC Jargon:
This goes hand in hand with Linux jargon. There is a glossary in the manual but it probably needs expanding / updating. Hard for developers to do this because we use this stuff everyday- one forgets the learning curve! In truth windows has the same learning curves its just everyone has spent twenty years already learning it.

- Openning EMC (AXIS gui actually) maximized:
This is a problem that cannot be fixed by EMC developers. It is a problem with one of the GUI programming libraries. Not that I know much about the problem but it has been discussed before. There is a work around but of course is not that simple to a noobie.
http://burtonini.com/blog/computers/devilspie/

-what effects speed reliability:
The hardware the hardware the hardware!
video cards can have a great effect.
Special CPU controls (mostly black magic to normal humans) have a great effect.
SMI (system management interrupt) is a common problem.
ACPI is another and I believe this is the one that causes EMC not to be able to turn the computer off automatically. EMC disables it to get better latency the trade off is you have to manually turn off the computer (not really that bad).
There are others:
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emc..._bios_settings

- low speed capabilities 33khz vrs 100 with Mach:
This sounds like you may have a latency problem (hard to say I don't think you mentioned the latency numbers) you maybe able to improve it see above link.
I can't comment on Mach's numbers as I have never used it nor know anything technical about it.
As far as extra programs on the operating system that are not needed that really doesn't matter much. The realtime kernel (kinda mini operating system) that runs the critical timing of EMC, runs as the highest priority job on the CPU. The Linux operating system (Ubuntu in this case) is actually only allowed to run if the realtime kernel is not busy. (this is a simplified explanation I am no expert on this subject)
So running extra programs will only effect the responsiveness of programs running under Linux not the programs running under the realtime kernel.
Now some of EMC programs run under linux (eg the GUI AXIS) so it is important to leave some CPU time for running Linux. This is why setting the BASE PERIOD is important. It is a balance between speed/reliable stepping and linux responsiveness.

As I write this I realize I probably need to expand on some subjects to explain it better.
hmm maybe I will start a wiki page to flush this out and then maybe we could add it to the manual....

Chris M

[DonnieET]

I'm fairly new at this and done enough over the years with computer to be appreciative of what the folks have done with EMC. Yes the learning curve is steep and you’re learning Linux and EMC at the same time. I know I could never have gotten my mill working with Mach short of spending over a thousand dollars as Mach can not run servo drive! Mach can not handle encoders either.

Now this issue of shutting down why both just kill the power and shut down quickly Linux does not care no error message on the next startup ;-) Try that with windows and your waiting 10 minutes to boot as windows check everything out.

Prime time have you worked with any Fanuc, GE, Allen Bradley, Siemens or any other controller try to change their screen! Ask them to and see what that gets you.

Sorry Guys I get off the soap box now.

Donnie

[M250cnc]

Like HawkJET i would love to try EMC2 but unlike HawkJET i have already built 2 machines run by Mach3 a lathe and a mill.

But i am looking at EMC as it has basic features in lathe that Mach3 doesn't. "Constant Surface Speed" for the lathe, that is a basic function in my book but unavailable with Mach

But it looks so basic compared to Mach and yet there are many features missing in Mach

What the community needs is someone like Hood, a Mach user with considerable patience and unlimited appetite for helping the NEWBIE

Having read through this thread i gleaned that it is not possible to customize a screen unless you decide to make an application to do it.

Doing reading elsewhere i found that you can do hardware buttons, but then us windoze users hit the brick wall of understanding the OS

Phil

[andypugh]

You can add buttons, gauges, sliders etc to EMC2.
Some examples here http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal_pyvcp_examples.html
You need to define them using XML, but that isn't "making an application"

[andypugh]

Sorry, I lost this question.

Is it using a 4th axis for the kerf compensation?

Using 4th and 5th axes (Two orthogonal tilts) and tracking the current movement direction to get the correct compound angle.

How did you handle the deceleration and acceleration for the corners?

That remains to be seen. I think that the trajectory planner might handle it OK if the tilt speeds are slow enough for the X and Y to keep up. If not then we will need to limit it in the kinematics module.
We have got to the point where we need the hardware to watch to figure out the problems.

[krak]

i've been fighting with EMC2 all day. I loaded up the live cd, installed everything right onto the drive. I go to try the program, and it locks up the OS. So I updated 8.04 with all the updated it had, tried for hours to get the emc2 2.4.1 update. Everything in the wiki failed to update the program. Except for using GIT to compile the program. I got that to work, so ran the EMC2 program,... and it crashes the OS. I;m currently loading a fresh copy of XP on the computer. The last copy was bogged down with crap, and Mach crashed it. So I am hoping a fresh copy will help, or I will be looking for a new Tower and tips from all of you to get one of these programs running well. #icrosoft time says I still have 29 minutes, so I sure I'll be here for a few hours.

[cyclestart]

So I updated 8.04 with all the updated it had,

Hopefully this means updated and not upgraded past 8.04

dream wiki entry:
Go to newegg and buy exactly these components. Guaranteed low latency ! Window transitions as smooth as a baby's bottom ! Born to run OpenGL ! Ideal parallel port ! Cheap ! Here's the bios settings...xxx.

Unfortunately inventory at these stores changes constantly