nema 23 instead of 34


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    Default nema 23 instead of 34

    Here is my issue.

    i build cnc for surfboards cutting.

    i normally use Nema34 670oz and a 4: 1reduction box

    i was wondering if i could get away with a high torque nema23 with a another reduction box, who know what. need help.

    i need to run speed at 10 000 mm/per min minimum while cutting foam. machine in 4' x 10' 16" Z axis play.

    i saw neam23 670oz. wondering... please help revolucionsurf@gmail.com

    Louis

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    Member ger21's Avatar
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    Default Re: nema 23 instead of 34

    Why do you want to change to a different motor?

    Is this rack and pinion? If so, what size is the pinion?

    What drives are you using, and what voltage are you running at?

    What are the specs of the motors? (Both of them)

    How much weight are you moving?

    I would not expect a 670oz Nema 23 to be faster. Keep in mind the torque rating of a stepper is the torque when it's not spinning. I would expect the Nema 23 would have less torque at the speeds you need.

    All of the things I mentioned have an affect on speed.

    Gerry

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    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: nema 23 instead of 34

    To get more speed, maybe use 1280 oz/in stepper motors and a 2:1 reduction. That would reduce the motor speed requirement by half, and still give about the same torque. Supply the drive with the maximum rated voltage. I routinely run my 4' x 8' machine at 15,000mm/min with those motors with a 1.5:1 reduction, and using a single motor moving a mass of about 300Kg

    Even better would be to use something like the ClearPath Servo motors.



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    Member awerby's Avatar
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    Default Re: nema 23 instead of 34

    I'd vote for servos, if you really need to go that fast and not run out of torque. Steppers tend to lose torque the faster they are asked to run, so if you push them too hard they will fault out or lose steps.

    [FONT=Verdana]Andrew Werby[/FONT]
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    Default Re: nema 23 instead of 34

    using the cnc router part kit.

    the thing is that i just got an order for a machine but they are poor so i am making the machine for free, i mean no time and they pay the material,
    the reason i did that is that i could take my time to experiment without getting pushed, is my machine ready, bla bla...

    now i can take my time and actually make a better machine as my current one.

    rigtht now i am using keiling drivers, with 960oz nema 34 running at max power on the pin on the driver. i dont have a problem, love the setup, its fats,powerfull, not crazy expensive, i can run at 15 000mm BUT on this new machine i need to cut prices. so anyway i walk into a surfboard guy in my area and he has a machine similar in size and weight. he was running nema 23 with an anaheim reduction gear but the sticker was off so i couldnt see and i hes secretive so he did want to show me the drivers. . i couldnt beleive he was running nema 23. the Z axis is about 40 pds maybe a bit more.

    on this machine i will be using V groove wheel, i used Hiwin on all my machine but i beleive Vgroove will rock in my extreme dusty environment and they are cheap. i want to build a tank. you can see my site www.revolucionsurboards.com



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    Default Re: nema 23 instead of 34

    one question about voltage. thereason i asked is because most of the people made my electronics, i had THE worst experience with a popular provider
    ( not cnc router parts, Ahren as been great ) anyway i changed provider to save 300$, cost me 3 month of trying make it work. that box was so complicated for no reason, i mean wires everywhere, they had the wrong manual, , Arturo was very helpful but he didnt know his own boards because they had new version and so on.. i have never seen such a mess. build 2 machine with these box because i bought them both at once and 2 years later these machines are still not reliable. i wouldnt touch cnc4pc with a 10 foot poles, god they almost cost me business, no joke. these machine were 16 feet long, they would send me 4 foot wires... on and on...

    anyway ill stop the rant, the good news is that i learned something and now i build my own box so i know its clean, tighty etc... but one thing i am confused about is power., powersupply to be exact.
    if you have a 7 amp motor, do you get a 7amp power supply or you go bigger and dial down so its not maxed out?

    second, is it a good idea to have a vfd inside the box with the driver or make a separate box. this was one of the issue with their box was rmi. kept screwing home switch when the spindle was running,

    third, can you get the biggest nema 23 say 670oz with a reduction gear and get similar torque has a 1200 nema 34?

    thanks,

    the electronic is not my best, i built a few pmdx126 with ESS and gecko 203, thye were simple and worked good but then i got told that digital driver like keiling are much better so hell broke loose. i just build a small ox cnc, waiting for the gecko540, i think that will be nice but for my monster machine, without going servo because my clientele is poor, smaller surfshop etc.. i need to get the best for the buck that can move fast, keep torque, i mena i am not cutting metal, only foam but trust me, when it cuts the outline of the boards bit a 4" by 1" wide bit, there is a LOT or torque behind that bit.
    sure i cold slow down but they all ask" can your machine cut 3 to 4 boards and hour??" they need speed and torque. sure on the outline i reduce the speed to 3000 to be safe and they can wait a bit but still i need a solution for a cheaper version of bigger my machine that will be a bit slwer and i am ok with that.

    cheers

    Louis



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    Member ger21's Avatar
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    Default Re: nema 23 instead of 34

    anyway ill stop the rant, the good news is that i learned something and now i build my own box so i know its clean, tighty etc... but one thing i am confused about is power., powersupply to be exact.
    if you have a 7 amp motor, do you get a 7amp power supply or you go bigger and dial down so its not maxed out?
    It depends on your drives, but generally, you need about 2/3 of the rated current for each motor. So, for a 7 amp motor, you need about 5 amps. If you have 3 7amp motors, you'd want a 15 amp power supply.

    second, is it a good idea to have a vfd inside the box with the driver or make a separate box. this was one of the issue with their box was rmi. kept screwing home switch when the spindle was running,
    If you use shielded wiring where needed, and follow proper grounding procedures, it shouldn't be a problem.

    third, can you get the biggest nema 23 say 670oz with a reduction gear and get similar torque has a 1200 nema 34?
    Not likely. A smaller Nema 23 would most likely provide more torque than the larger one, when using a gear reduction. With a reduction, you are spinning the motor much faster. With steppers, the faster you spin them, the less torque they have. A smaller motor will often have more torque at higher rpm than a larger one.

    If you want to build a tank, stick with Hiwins. They are many times stronger and more rigid than V bearings.

    rigtht now i am using keiling drivers, with 960oz nema 34 running at max power on the pin on the driver. i dont have a problem, love the setup, its fats,powerfull, not crazy expensive, i can run at 15 000mm BUT on this new machine i need to cut prices. so anyway i walk into a surfboard guy in my area and he has a machine similar in size and weight. he was running nema 23 with an anaheim reduction gear but the sticker was off so i couldnt see and i hes secretive so he did want to show me the drivers. . i couldnt beleive he was running nema 23. the Z axis is about 40 pds maybe a bit more.
    Even if you could get similar power, a good quality gearbox will cost enough to offset any savings you might get from a smaller motor. You'd still need a similar drive and power supply, so the savings might only be $50 per axis. A gearbox will cost much more thhan that.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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nema 23 instead of 34

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