Best laser cutter to cut DI-NOC vinyl?

[TheRealHershey]

Hey,

Sorry to be the new guy asking the same old question, but I didn't find what I was looking for by searching...

I currently have a vinyl cutter/plotter for cutting 3M's DI-NOC vinyl (8 mil thick), but it's not as precise I need/want, so I think, from what I've researched, the next step towards better cuts and precision is a laser cutter. ???

Which direction should I look in? I don't need to engrave, and will only be cutting vinyl for the foreseeable future with this machine...if that helps narrow it down.

I'll be doing stuff similar to what's this site: iPhone 4 Skins - Decorative Skins, Wraps, Decals and Protectors for Apple Mobile Phones

Which machine would be good for this type of stuff? Obviously, I'm looking for the cheapest machine that'll do this type of cutting, but my budget for a good machine that would do other things as well, is about $3k +/- $1k. Any help and info will be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

[bpoulin]

Vinyl cutter is the tool for the job. Vinyl, depending on the brand, is PVC based, when you burn PVC it releases Hydrochloric Acid... BAD BAD stuff, bad for you, bad for your machines, just a general no-no.

What brand cutter do you have? It may be time to invest in a better cutter/plotter.

[TheRealHershey]

Originally Posted by bpoulin Vinyl cutter is the tool for the job. Vinyl, depending on the brand, is PVC based, when you burn PVC it releases Hydrochloric Acid... BAD BAD stuff, bad for you, bad for your machines, just a general no-no. What brand cutter do you have? It may be time to invest in a better cutter/plotter.

I've read that, and while this DI-NOC is PVC based, everyone who I've found that are making skins say their skins are precision laser cut, so either they're dumb dumbs and going to be dead in 3 years, or they've figured out someway of doing it. Your guess is probably better than mine.

I have a GCC Expert 24 ($450); it's the best 'cheap' one on the market from the research I did earlier this year. I've also thought about getting a Roland GX-24 ($1800), which is the 'good' higher end one in the 24" width range, since it uses servo motors, instead of stepper motors, which are supposed to be more accurate, or something like that.

As far as Software resolution goes on the Roland and GCC, both are 0.000984” (0.025mm); the Mechanical resolution of the Roland is 0.000492” (0.0125mm), and I can't find that info about the GCC.

It's accurate enough for the job, but between Illustrator > GreatCut > Cutter, the X Y axes don't stay proportional at all, which has cost me probably a dozen sleepless nights trying to figure out the logic and fix to the problem.

[bpoulin]

steppers can be less accurate than a servo, because you can lose a step and throw the whole project off. That's not supposed to happen with a servo motor. Also servos are quieter and faster. There are some ppl who cut pvc with their laser. But it has to be in an enclosed SEALED room, the room has to have proper ventilation, and air scrubbers, or you're pumping HCL gas into the air. This doesn't solve the problem of now HCL is getting deposited on your machine, mirrors, and lenses. Now that said doesn't mean people aren't doing it. I'm guessing a lot of these people aren't aware that they are creating HCL gas, they probably bought a laser cutter without doing the research first. Tweakie is the best resource on this subject. Personally I'd get a nice new servo cutter, maybe the new desktop print/cut unit, then you can print your own designs on the protective covers.

Here's a little homework. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrochloric_acid

[TheRealHershey]

Originally Posted by bpoulin steppers can be less accurate than a servo, because you can lose a step and throw the whole project off. That's not supposed to happen with a servo motor. Also servos are quieter and faster. There are some ppl who cut pvc with their laser. But it has to be in an enclosed SEALED room, the room has to have proper ventilation, and air scrubbers, or you're pumping HCL gas into the air. This doesn't solve the problem of now HCL is getting deposited on your machine, mirrors, and lenses. Now that said doesn't mean people aren't doing it. I'm guessing a lot of these people aren't aware that they are creating HCL gas, they probably bought a laser cutter without doing the research first. Tweakie is the best resource on this subject. Personally I'd get a nice new servo cutter, maybe the new desktop print/cut unit, then you can print your own designs on the protective covers. Here's a little homework. Hydrochloric acid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thanks for the reply. I'm guessing they probably don't know, but since I've seen it on 10+ sights, I thought there might be a chance that there was a laser cutter that cuts this type of vinyl nowadays.

I'll do some more research on the Roland and probably just end up getting one of those.

My current products at here: Carbon Fiber Magic - Home

[bpoulin]

Look into other materials, I know there are vinyls out there that are not PVC based.

[Rodney Gold]

A laser will not cut vinyl well anyway , not as well as a blade setup. The issue is that you get some edge melt which either re welds the cut or it gives a "blunt" edge or , because its almost impossible to control the exact depth of cut with a laser , the paper backing gets "slightly" cut rather than scored and the cut penetrates the silicon paper backing and then the melt goes into the paper. All this leads to really difficult weeding.
Thats apart from the HCL problem which is really pretty minor if you are merely kiss cutting.
We actually use a form of vinyl to acid etch metals , we use a laser friendly polyster based vinyl , we actually raster laser the detail , then sandblast to get rid of the residual glues etc the laser leaves behind , then use ferric chloride to etch , afterwards , we remove the vinyl (very difficult)

[TheRealHershey]

Originally Posted by bpoulin Look into other materials, I know there are vinyls out there that are not PVC based.

Not worth it. 3M makes the best carbon fiber vinyl out there and what's what all of the other skin sites use too, so it's kind of the key component in my business.

I'll check around and try to find someone locally who has a Roland RX-24 and see if I can try it out for an hour or two and see if it's noticeably better.

[bpoulin]

Here would be the optimal machine for what you're doing, but it's got a hefty price tag. But considering it's capabilities... Roland BN-20 It may be cheaper to find a dedicated printer, and get a cutter with optical alignment.

[bpoulin]

signsupply.com has a used graphtec cutter for sale.

[TheRealHershey]

Originally Posted by bpoulin signsupply.com has a used graphtec cutter for sale.

Thanks - I'll give them a call and see how much they're asking for it!

As far as the other Roland you posted, I don't need to print on the vinyl at this time, even though I have an idea for a skin company that would require a cutter/printer like that. I think I just need something with the better servo motors.

I'm going to drive over and check this one out tomorrow or Friday: Roland GX-24 Vinyl Cutter

It's 5 years old, and the guy says it hasn't been used very much, but I don't really need the stand and I think the price is kind of high for being 5 years old. I'd be ahead to just buy a new one without a stand for $1800.

[bpoulin]

That's pretty steep for a GX-24, those go for around 1g in the Atlanta area. I'm curious how much he's asking for the printer. I'm broke, but I'd love to own a wide format printer.