newbie needs help

[hippee]

Firstly i would like to say hello to everyone
I am currently going into business doing metal cutting & fabrication
I am looking for a laser (I THINK) i know this could be an old thread
But could someone tell me if i would be better getting a hi def plasma or a
a 4 kw laser
which one would be quicker
which one would be more cost effective ie power air gas & consumables
I want to be able to cut up to 20mm mild steel
i have heard that high def plasma can cut as good as laser is this correct

thanks in advance

[Litografa]

Generally speaking laser always will cut better than highdef plasma. Another question - do you need laser cut quality? But for you it's MAY BE better compare laser, plasma and water jet.
Look on MULTICAM as they have all three technologies. But be prepared for long delivery term - 12 weeks will be minimum, high price and you will need powerful electric supply.

[hippee]

Yes i do need the Quality of a laser we nearly bought one then i was told that high def plasma was just as good for alot less money we also thought of water jet are they not alot slower?? Litografa

[bpoulin]

I don't have any personal experience but I was under the impression that the waterjet cut was pretty much a polished finish. Much smoother than plasma. Also a waterjet is not limited to only cutting metal like the plasma would. Just my 2¢

[zax15uk]

Abrasive waterjet is great; but very expensive and noisy. The consumables (nozzles and pump components) are also higher than other methods. For these reasons it is very specialized and only for situations when absolutely necessary.

Laser is an excellent choice but for most requirements a HD Plasma will provide an acceptable edge quality.

I would suggest you have some application studies done with each method and determine what is required. Cost is likely to be a major factor when considering waterjet.

Zax.

[rjahr]

All depends on what you are cutting- will it have intricate small holes if it does laser is best... If it's a large part with large internal holes bigger then 2" then a water jet will work plus you could stack your sheets 10 high and cut through multiple sheets... what are you cutting intricate tight tolerance or large with large internal cutouts

[jimcolt]

High Definition plasma or laser or abrasive water jet. Three different processes, all of which can cut metals, yet each has its strong points , weak points and best quality/productivity niche. I have been in many modern shops that have all three processes at their disposal, and use each for what they do best.

Here are some rules of thumb for each process....and for plasma I am talking a igh definition plasma on an industrial quality precision cnc machine. A whole different animal as compared to an air plasma on a low cost machine.

Process comparisons:

Plasma....can cut any conductive materials. Cut quality and accuracy can be very good on gauge to 1/4", medium cut speeds in this thickness range. On materials thicker than 1/4", plasma cut quality gets better, and speeds, as compared to the other processes are by far the fastest. Plasma will pierce and cut to 2"

Laser.... can cut a lot of materials, do not have to be conductive like plasma, but different material reflectivities will affect the ability to cut. Laser is the fastest, most accurate of the 3 processes on materials thinner than 1/4", especially steel and stainless. Most lasers have limitations with higher grades of aluminum due to reflectivity. On material thicknesses above 1/4", laser speed drops off dramatically, and quality gets similar to high definition plasma. A 4kW C02 laser can pierce and cut to 3/4".

Abrasive water jet....can cut just about anything. Speeds are very slow as compared to the other two processes. On thin gauge materials defelection of the material durring cutting can be an issue that affects accuracy. Water jets are typically limited to about 6" thick materials.

Capital equipment costs, operating costs:

Plasma. A high quality 6 x 12 precision cnc machine with a Hypertherm HPR400xd high definition plasma will typically cost about $150,000 installed with fume control equipment. Operating cost is by far the lowest of the three processes...oxygen and other gases are used in relatively low quantity, plasma consumables typically will last up to 3 shifts of cutting, and total cost per foot of cut is much lower than the other processes primarily due to faster speeds on most materials. Can hold cut part tolerances typically of .015" to .020"

Laser. A 4kW C02 laser on a 6 x 12 laser cnc machine will typically be priced in the $450,000 range, installed with fume controls. Operating cost components are primarily assist ga useage...at relatively high pressure and flow (oxygen and nitrogen usually). Laser is far less efficient in regards to electricity....less of the wall power is converted into real cutting power due to inneficient conversion of power to light energy. Operating cost per foot of cut with laser are typically 1.5 to 4 times plasma cutting costs, accuracy of parts is ususally better than plasma on materials up to about 1/4". Can hold cut part tolerances of typically less than .015"

Abrasive water jet. A 50 HP abrasive water jet on a 6 x 12 cnc cutting machine will cost close to $300,000. Operating cost is largely related to the use of garnet abrasives as well as nozzles for the cutting head. Cut speeds are slower than the other processes, and operating costs as compared to the plasma can be 3 to 6 times higher. Can hole cut part tolerances typically of less than .010"

A few notes about each:

Plasma....the latest High Definition plasma systems are by far the easiest systems to learn to operate and cut with great accuracy. Simply load in your part drawing to the CAM software, choose how many, and push the start button. There are no settings to tweak, and since the control is windows based, learning curve is very short.

Laser.... best cut quality and productivity on thinner materials. Accuracy is also very good, learning curve is high, and operator needs some experince to get the most out of his machine. After 5 to 6 years expect to have to rebuild the laser resonator....$50k to $75k typically.

Water Jet....excellent cut quality, non heat affected materials. Unfortunately it is a rather slow process. Abrasive slurry is messy, often these machines are kept in a room by themselves.

Hope this gives a little insight and comparative info.

Jim Colt

[Tweakie]

Jim,

Thanks for the insight and taking the time to share this comparative information.

Tweakie.

[hippee]

Jim Thankyou we will be cutting some intricate small holes so its looking very like the laser is going to be the best for the job thats it now im going to buy one.
Thankyou to everyone that had some input on this

[TheMadEtcher]

For my job I run and program high powered lasers waterjets and mills. We have a 4000w Mazak Hypergear 5x10 champ and it is a stud. I like the waterjets but the edge quality does not stand up to a laser hands down they are very noisy and are dieing the min you turn them on. What I mean by this is they are very high maintenance and the pumps and or head need to be rebuilt often. Laser is the way to go my friend. Now there a little more spendy but for the speed, accuracy and quality there is no comparison. If you have more questions please feel free to contact me via PM.

[TheMadEtcher]

Originally Posted by jimcolt High Definition plasma or laser or abrasive water jet. Three different processes, all of which can cut metals, yet each has its strong points , weak points and best quality/productivity niche. I have been in many modern shops that have all three processes at their disposal, and use each for what they do best. Here are some rules of thumb for each process....and for plasma I am talking a igh definition plasma on an industrial quality precision cnc machine. A whole different animal as compared to an air plasma on a low cost machine. Process comparisons: Plasma....can cut any conductive materials. Cut quality and accuracy can be very good on gauge to 1/4", medium cut speeds in this thickness range. On materials thicker than 1/4", plasma cut quality gets better, and speeds, as compared to the other processes are by far the fastest. Plasma will pierce and cut to 2" Laser.... can cut a lot of materials, do not have to be conductive like plasma, but different material reflectivities will affect the ability to cut. Laser is the fastest, most accurate of the 3 processes on materials thinner than 1/4", especially steel and stainless. Most lasers have limitations with higher grades of aluminum due to reflectivity. On material thicknesses above 1/4", laser speed drops off dramatically, and quality gets similar to high definition plasma. A 4kW C02 laser can pierce and cut to 3/4". Abrasive water jet....can cut just about anything. Speeds are very slow as compared to the other two processes. On thin gauge materials defelection of the material durring cutting can be an issue that affects accuracy. Water jets are typically limited to about 6" thick materials. Capital equipment costs, operating costs: Plasma. A high quality 6 x 12 precision cnc machine with a Hypertherm HPR400xd high definition plasma will typically cost about $150,000 installed with fume control equipment. Operating cost is by far the lowest of the three processes...oxygen and other gases are used in relatively low quantity, plasma consumables typically will last up to 3 shifts of cutting, and total cost per foot of cut is much lower than the other processes primarily due to faster speeds on most materials. Can hold cut part tolerances typically of .015" to .020" Laser. A 4kW C02 laser on a 6 x 12 laser cnc machine will typically be priced in the $450,000 range, installed with fume controls. Operating cost components are primarily assist ga useage...at relatively high pressure and flow (oxygen and nitrogen usually). Laser is far less efficient in regards to electricity....less of the wall power is converted into real cutting power due to inneficient conversion of power to light energy. Operating cost per foot of cut with laser are typically 1.5 to 4 times plasma cutting costs, accuracy of parts is ususally better than plasma on materials up to about 1/4". Can hold cut part tolerances of typically less than .015" Abrasive water jet. A 50 HP abrasive water jet on a 6 x 12 cnc cutting machine will cost close to $300,000. Operating cost is largely related to the use of garnet abrasives as well as nozzles for the cutting head. Cut speeds are slower than the other processes, and operating costs as compared to the plasma can be 3 to 6 times higher. Can hole cut part tolerances typically of less than .010" A few notes about each: Plasma....the latest High Definition plasma systems are by far the easiest systems to learn to operate and cut with great accuracy. Simply load in your part drawing to the CAM software, choose how many, and push the start button. There are no settings to tweak, and since the control is windows based, learning curve is very short. Laser.... best cut quality and productivity on thinner materials. Accuracy is also very good, learning curve is high, and operator needs some experince to get the most out of his machine. After 5 to 6 years expect to have to rebuild the laser resonator....$50k to $75k typically. Water Jet....excellent cut quality, non heat affected materials. Unfortunately it is a rather slow process. Abrasive slurry is messy, often these machines are kept in a room by themselves. Hope this gives a little insight and comparative info. Jim Colt

Hi jim I agree with what your saying for the most part but our Mazak Hypergear 4kw laser cuts 1" Steel 3/8 Alum and 1/2 SS I have cut these thickness and am quite happy with the results.