Need Help! Wells-Index Model 823

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Thread: Wells-Index Model 823

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    Default Wells-Index Model 823

    I bought an old Wells-Index Model 823 CNC knee mill thats in overall good shape but it didnt have a controller with it. The guy I bought it off of wired it up with a 48v dc power suppy and used manual pushputtons to control the direction and a pot to control the speed of the servos, crude but it works. Its 3 axis, and Id like to run it on MACH3 but I dont know what drives to buy. The servos are by GE, 1/3HP 1750 rpm 48v DC with "position transducers". I removed the Y servo when I moved it and took pics. Ive seen some low cost DC brushed servo drives but Im not sure how to tell if I have an encoder or hall effect sensors or tachometer type feedback, and how to wire it up. Also what would be a good BOB to look at too? Any ideas or suggestions to help me along would be great, Thanks!

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    My friends and I have been working on replacing the electronics on a Wells Index 833c. We have redrawn all the schematics we could find. I can post what we have if you like. I don't think you'll need the schematics. We abandoned the existing electronics and installed High Voltage UHU controllers and Mach 3 software. We removed the existing Tach's and installed AMT-103 Encoders with the Differential Input cables, CUI-103E-10. We got one motor to work on the bench, then we lost our electrical type and I shorted out a chip and things stalled. Our electrical type is coming back for Xmas so we should get it working soon. We have Electro Craft E723 Brushed DC motors on ours. We chose the C10 BOB from CNC4PC.

    The High Voltage UHU controller is well documented here on the Zone and there are now two controller chips to choose from.

    We were trying to get the machine running for under $1000. We didn't make it but but we're close.



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    Hello Bob:
    I believe the Wells Index 833 used the Sharnoa Control. The original control was pretty amazing considering what it could do way back in the early 1980's. The Electrocraft motors are very good motors. I bought a Sharnoa control complete back in 1981 and installed all the components onto a Lagun FTV-3 Knee mill. That mill is about the size of a Bridgeport Series II, but has a 104mm diameter spindle, with 6" Z travel. The mill was built CNC ready with all the ballscrews and pressure oiling in place. The mill CNC control was a factory built, full 4-axis simultaneous control with 2000 ppr encoder feedback. The Electrocraft motor amplifiers were made by Westamp, +/- 10volt signal, DC 90 Amp main power supply.
    About 1997, the original control powersupply went over-voltage, and ruined some of the boards in the rackmount chassis. Sharnoa was still in business,and I called them for a power supply schematic, but that was a no go. Shortly thereafter, they ceased business. The mill sat gathering dust until I learned about the Vital Systems dspmc controller, that would work in sync with Mach3. I bought a controller, and spent about a week tracing where all the wires went from the motors encoders, limit switches, conctactor cabinet, relays, etc. I made basic drawings, and began stripping out all the factory computer control wiring, circuit boards. It was pretty basic re-connecting the basic parts to the Vital Systems I/O boards, and making a few cables. All the original limit switches, motors, power amps, reference switches are in the new machine. The encoders had to be replaced with differential encoders, using A+, A-, B+, B-, Z+, Z-, power, and ground. I used the AMT-104 modules mounted on the back of the Electrocraft motors, with the original tach feedback to the original Westamps. I have replaced a couple of the Amps over time (E-bay), and the machine runs better than the original. It is faster, smoother, and of course now has a 17" monitor and unlimited memory. It is still full 4-axis.
    Things have sure changed in 30 years.
    John



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    Clapper33,

    We didn't know of the Vital Systems dspmc controller when we started. That is why we went with the HP-UHU. If you don't want to build and debug your own controller this might be a good alternative. I haven't researched it yet and we are committed but, from a quick look on the internet it seems to be well priced.

    The AMT 100 series controllers are capacitive modular encoders that allow you to choose the pulse frequency you need. The only problem I've heard about was a slight time delay that could be a problem at high speeds. Not a problem for my group. The UHU original chip has an encoder limit of 1000 lines per revolution. The other "chip" from Henrik Olsson doesn't have this limit. We thought it would be nice to be able to have the option of changing the pulse frequency if we needed. The AMT 104 must be new. I only know of the AMT 102 & 103. They are the same except for their size and output connector.



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    Hello Bob:
    I made a mistake regarding the AMT#, as I was writing the post from memory. The unit used was AMT-102. I have (4) of them working on my mill, and all work fine. Very nice compact little package for retro-fitting to a motor.
    The dspmc controller has also worked without a problem. One of the nice features of that particular control is the built-in software for motor tuning. The program switches to a graphic mode, and you can see in real time the accel/decel S-curve in real time setting the PID parameters for each motor in turn. By running the each axis back and forth, and watching the curve, and observing the motion, and the motor sound you can zero in on the best numerical settings in the motor tuning parameter table. When you are satisfied with the tuning, the settings are saved to the controller memory. Although the machine has the same model# motors on all the axis, the best settings for each were different due to the load they had to move. I believe the motors are better tuned now with the Vital Systems graphic feature, than the original control provided.
    John



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    Hello John,

    The more I hear of the Vital Systems dspmc controller the better it sounds. We had to reserrect a DOS machine just to tune our motors. There are other choices, anyone care to comment?

    When we were choosing a controller the HP-UHU was just being developed here on the Zone and all the comments were positive. It also provided us with a project that helped us understand how CNC controllers, E-stop, BOB's, Power Dumps etc. worked. We also had to machine some heat sinks and wade through hundreds of posts, different P/L's, schematic changes and board reworks that were somewhat confusing. I think we've sorted that out now so if someone decides to make a HP-UHU controller I can help. Having a ready made & tested controller is still definitely a plus and you can return it if it doesn't work.

    Where is Clapper33? Why haven't we heard from him?

    Bob



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    Default Re: Wells-Index Model 823

    I just jumped on this thread... not sure if you got your answer or not.

    I have the same mill... got it in 2001. I pulled the encoders off and replaced them with 500 line Optical quadrature encoders from US Digital. I installed Geckodrives to connect with the motors. It runs great. I am getting ready to move it from St Louis to TX in a bit. If you need help I can help you... and I'm reasonably sure I'll be documenting everything on my blog.

    Comments by Jerry Rutherford

    Contact me if you still need help... I'll step you through it... it's not too bad.

    Jerry



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