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  1. #61
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    I took some pictures of the new electronics..

    First off are my custom boards. From left to right are the stepper motor backplane breakout, console breakout, IDC to terminal strip converters, IDC/terminal strip in place, and finally everything in place. I also added some pictures of of the naked, uncut PCBs.

    Dyna Mechtronics 4400 (DM4400, dyna myte) reference + brochures & photos-p1030403-jpg Dyna Mechtronics 4400 (DM4400, dyna myte) reference + brochures & photos-p1030405-jpg Dyna Mechtronics 4400 (DM4400, dyna myte) reference + brochures & photos-p1030407-jpg Dyna Mechtronics 4400 (DM4400, dyna myte) reference + brochures & photos-p1030406-jpg Dyna Mechtronics 4400 (DM4400, dyna myte) reference + brochures & photos-p1030408-jpg Dyna Mechtronics 4400 (DM4400, dyna myte) reference + brochures & photos-p1030409-jpg

    On the controller side, I'm using a very small all-in-one motherboard with a bunch on interesting pieces.

    Dyna Mechtronics 4400 (DM4400, dyna myte) reference + brochures & photos-p1030410-jpg Dyna Mechtronics 4400 (DM4400, dyna myte) reference + brochures & photos-p1030411-jpg Dyna Mechtronics 4400 (DM4400, dyna myte) reference + brochures & photos-p1030412-jpg Dyna Mechtronics 4400 (DM4400, dyna myte) reference + brochures & photos-p1030413-jpg Dyna Mechtronics 4400 (DM4400, dyna myte) reference + brochures & photos-p1030416-jpg

    The left picture shows the console breakout connected to the parallel port on the motherboard I'm using (1.4 Ghz, 1Gb Ram), which you can see in the next picture. One of the things I did was buy a very, very small power supply (the yellow thing in the next picture) which uses 12v. As the mill has a 3.0A 12vdc power supply, this will work nicely, and I'm feeding it through the old connector harness (although I still have to check if there is already 12v in the existing wires).

    The next picture shows my other nifty gadget, which is a 4GB solid-state harddrive. It plugs straight into an IDE socket and is powered like a normal drive. The last picture is an overview of the whole thing on the backside of the old console (old console removed, obviously). The great thing about this motherboard and associated gizmos is that there are no moving parts at all, and no large power supply that needs AC.

    I still don't know what exactly I'm going to do about powering the touchscreen, but I'm going to look at it carefully to see if I can't power it with 12vdc as well...

    I'm thinking that the mill's stock PS may get max'd out (if it isn't already), so perhaps I should install a dedicated 12v PS for the computer.... That small PSU plugged into the MB is only 90W, but that's 7.5A, which is twice what the mill's stock 12v ps puts out, although I don't have a harddrive, so that would reduce the load.

    That's it for now.

    Chris

    List of parts sources for CNC builders - http://www.CNCsources.net
    Dyna Mechtronics 4400C Conversion - CNC bed mill w/toolchanger to Mach3 conversion - http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50787


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    Post dm4400 dm4000

    i do have those mills too the dm4000 work like a charm it never let me down for over 10 years.. i aquired a dm4400 before christmas and this one is a nightmare ...as power supply it blown up one by one i am ordering a kit from machmotion a brand new mach3 wich will be installed on the dm4400 i should paint it like yours but blue and white..
    tell me posted as you retrofit yours as the tool changers and the spindle drive is not set yet i would appreciate your experience to retrofit it

    Sag

    Last edited by sagada; 04-18-2008 at 07:10 AM.


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    Chris, Have you had any luck with the spindle portion of your retro fit. I have purchased and been testing the VSD from Granite Devices for the AC servos and I am almost to the solution. The next step is the spindle drive but I am not sure where to start. Any thoughts? DSE



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    Default first time poster- anyone still checking this thread?

    I have the opportunity to purchase a DM4800 for cheap. It has a mitsu meldas m3 control. It has not been run in some time, is this machine likely to be friendly to work with. I have not found a 4800 model mentioned in any threads. can anybody help? I can get it for $2500. It is hard to believe that it wouldn't be worth that much in scrap metal. any suggestions of where to look for big problems? I'm a newbie to all this, just looking for a machine to get my foot in the door- already have a new shopbot and want something to machine metal.



  5. #65
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    The 4800 has 32" x 20" travels. Uses a 40 taper spindle with either 6K or 10K rpm spindle. 24 tool ATC (about 12 seconds tool - to - tool). Machine weighs approx 12K lbs and has all box ways.

    Mits still supports the control but replacement pieces are expensive. Runs standard G & M codes. Has 32K or 64K memory and will dripfeed/DNC at 9600 baud.

    If it's been sitting for a while, most likely the battery is dead and the memory card requires re-formatting. Mits will provide the procedure but the parameters will have to be uploaded or entered by hand. Dyna should still have parameters they can email you.



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    Thumbs up dm4800

    you lucky guy to find a dm4800 for $2500.00 i have been looking for one like that for years and you have one...........lucky you
    my personnal opinion.. but it is mine...it is a bit big for a first timer but it will be nice to work with it once you have it repair.
    the mit controller is a very nice control and very frendly user to work with i did work on those for decade you can use a fanuc processor to program it with minor change on offset procedure...
    as for repair yessssssss it is very expensive to repair try to check the spindle if it run because the spindle drive board is extremely expensive to change and seem to be weak it blowwwww once a while and cost the price you paid for your machine to replace it plus the cost of the repairman..
    before to start the machine have a look at the encoders on the axes drive they had the tendency to fill with coolant through the connector it would be a great idea to clean them at once..
    SaGaDa



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    Thanks for the replies. We were playing around with it today, spindle runs fine, orients with ATC, All axes jog and home fine , ATC carousel rotates manually cw and ccw, but we can't get it to change tools. We tried to program it in MDI,(m06 t16) and nothing works. There is a good set of manuals and it appears that we are following all the steps correctly. Caprirs, could this be a dead battery / memory format issue? or If we have power to the crt are we alright. I thought that in another post I saw where you were helping someone out that could not get the CRT to light up.

    One of the biggest difficulties is that all the labels have been worn off the control panel, and the documentation seems to be a bit off, as far as the button and light layout goes. Does anyone have a good image of the operator controls for the mits meldas m3so I could mark everything correctly?

    I'm not sure how apparent my ignorance is in my writing, I am not totally virgin to this - (I worked for the last year operating a tape-cnc converted Bridgeport Boss with a an AHHa controller (I think) in a little two man shop as an apprentice before it closed), but automatic toolchangers, Mcode and DNC is not something I am familiar with. Sagada, it is good to hear that this sounds like a good deal to somebody else. You are right, it is big, but it is already in the shop I am working out of (I don't have to move it and I have access to good tooling). The guy that I share space with got it for a real steal, and was going to use it but doesn't have the time to devote to learning the mits control (He is running two new Haas machines that work just fine for him). My good price is contingent on allowing for overflow from his projects. I thought for the price I couldn't go wrong.

    I plan on calling Mitsubishi and the last owners who operated the machine regularly in the morning, but would appreciate any advice here as well. I am really fascinated and eager to learn about all that I can. I appreciate anyone willing to help who is also willing to put up with the gaps in my understanding. Thanks, Mike.



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    It's possible the battery was low enough to lose some parameters and the tool change macro. The alarm screen should indicate a Zxx alarm for low battery if that's the case. The tool change macro should be program number 9000 or 9001.

    It's also possible the control does not know which tool is in the spindle and/or where the carousel is. Again, Mits can provide the procedure but I think it's R1854 and R1984. If memory serves, rotate the carousel so pocket #1 faces the spindle and make sure there is no tool in the spindle or pocket #1.
    - Go to ALARM/DIAG, press the soft key at the bottom PLC-I/F.
    - In the first field at the bottom of the screen, type in R1954, next field gets 1, next field gets 2, press INPUT.
    - In the first field, , type in R1984, next field gets 1, next field gets 2, press INPUT.
    - Power off the control, wait about 10 seconds, and power up again. The main disconnect does not have to be powered off.
    - Home the machine, then try the tool change through in MDI.

    The worn panels are common. I think Dyna can get replacement ones for a hefty price. The mode select switch at least changes on the CRT.

    In good working order, the 4800 will take as heavy a cut as any Mazak or Mori. It will out cut most Okumas of comparable size. Where it does not do well is high speed surfacing and frequent tool changes due to it's age.



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    Thumbs up dm4800

    ........... wowhuh
    In Montreal where i live the machine dealer really think an old machine is like a new one so when come the time to buy one they sell them at a price you won't believe it is called a R.. O.. so am happy for you for your DM4800..
    it is a very good idea to call mits let them have a look at it and let them reajust the control for you i was doing so with them since a had 3 mits in my shop.. i use to tell them to stop by once a while to reajust them not every week but once a year or so and not a special trip but when they were coming around this way it is cheaper......
    i do have a dm4000 and a dm4400 which run fine i am specializing in small parts for electronic company and recently i did bought a complete system a mach3 to retrofit one of them...i am looking for a bit bigger lile leadwell mcv0 witj a mit meldas mo on it and right now they are asking $11,000.00 for it so i imagine yours at $2500.00.......



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    You guys are great. Caprirs I went through the sequence you provided and when I switched to MDI this screen came up.Dyna Mechtronics 4400 (DM4400, dyna myte) reference + brochures & photos-img_2488-jpg
    Any suggestions? If you can't make it out in the image, it says under <stop code> T01 can't cycle start 0104.

    Does a tool need to be in the carousel? Does the spindle need to be oriented at a particular time in this process? Do I need to move the carousel out of the #1 position? You also included R1854, R1954, R1984 in your last post, was this correct? When I go to ALARM/DIAG press PLC/IF I get two places to enter info...it looks like this..

    ( )( )( ) ( )( )( )
    Do I fill in both sets, then press INPUT or first set... (R1984)(1)(2) INPUT second set...(R1984)(1)(2) INPUT?

    I have called Mits and keep getting voicemail, maybe it was a long weekend. I bet you guys will get back to me before they do. Here is a photo of my control I think I have it labeled correctly.




    Dyna Mechtronics 4400 (DM4400, dyna myte) reference + brochures &amp; photos-img_2489-jpg

    I am new to this forum, so I hope I attached images correctly.

    Thanks again for all your help.



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    Default tool changer

    first topo you don't need a tool in the carousel to make a tool change just make sure the spindle is empty of tool or the station you want otherwisw they will meet and you will have problem to take it off ....it would be a good practice for the moment to keep the spindle and the carousel empty until you get it working... on the old version of mits the carousel tool number had to match with the number you call on the control....on newer control the mits has tool manager that control the tool number and the carousel..exemple.....tool 1 could be place in number 20 in carousel , if you call it it would get the tool 1 in the pocket 20 in the carousel it would be up to you to write the tool identity on a piece of paper and keep it near the machine in a plastic pouch to keep clean..
    as far of the orientation yessssssssss it should orient into a specific position in order to receive the tool otherwise it would fall of the table ..
    when you call a tool on mdi the machine should zero home on the Z axes and orient to get the tool...if you don't get that process hummmmmmm......issssssshhhhhhhhhhhh

    topo two ...on mdi command the control would not do a second same command until you reset the machine you must have that key on your control

    exemple if you call T01 M06 and get the tool it is ok
    your next command must be different like T02 M06

    another thing why don't you try a little program instead of mdi like

    G40 G80 :
    G91 G28 X0 Y0 Z0 :
    T01 M06 :
    G0 G43 G90 X10.0 Y-10. Z 10. H01 :
    S2200 M03 :
    GO X0 YO :
    M05 :
    G91 G28 Z0 :
    T02 M06 :
    M30 :
    it will make a different tool change outside MDI and make the axes go around
    wish i could be there to help but ....... have fun

    S



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    S
    I notice you are typing
    T01 M06;

    I have been typing M06 T1..could the order be an issue? or T01 vs T1? I have been re-homing each axis every time I power up the control, if I do not move xy&z off the home switch could this be the problem? Before I checked the last post we tried a simple command "g00 x10 y10" -- hit cycle start -- nothing but the "t01 can't cycle start 0104" on the alarm page.

    I spent an hour on the phone with Omar from Mits, we worked through a few things, and he was unable to think of what the problem might be.

    you also said:

    another thing why don't you try a little program instead of mdi like

    G40 G80 :
    G91 G28 X0 Y0 Z0 :
    T01 M06 :
    G0 G43 G90 X10.0 Y-10. Z 10. H01 :
    S2200 M03 :
    GO X0 YO :
    M05 :
    G91 G28 Z0 :
    T02 M06 :
    M30 :
    it will make a different tool change outside MDI and make the axes go around...


    what screen should be up? and where should my mode switch be positioned? I assume I hit PROGRAM|IN/OUT should my switch be toggled to MEMORY? do I hit softkey for INPUT?

    Does anybody know of any good links/resources/books where I can read up on this type of control so I can improve my communication skills with the terminology? I kick myself for not going to school for this stuff, but I am young and willing to learn and again, I thank you for your patience with me.



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    Default dm4800

    hey hey
    the tool change order should not make a difference you could have M06 on the first line and T01 on the other one...
    it is very important to home all axes before doing anything at first power up
    as far as your alarm number why don't you have a look in your book it should be there.. oupsssssssss juste a simple axes move on MDI don't work mmmmmmm
    G0 X10. Y-10. : your Y must me in negative not positive because you are on the switch ...also have a look at the offset page on the control the G54 line has to have some value...
    G54 G41 X .500
    G42 Y-.500
    G43 Z 0.0
    this will remove you from the switch
    for the programming you have to set the selector to EDIT mode and you have to go to MDI page and open a number for a program and store it there
    when you want to run the program you have to go to MEMORY and make a search for the number you had chosen for your program..
    but all that come with experience and manyyyyyyyy nights to play on the control and read your book starting page 1....
    have a chair and a coke in front of your console and spend time like a did you will become a cnc king after a few years....


    Sagada (Rejean)



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    Might help,

    Another guy is getting similar error message on a Meldas 50 Lathe, as posted under General CNC forum. Some advice there

    "Look for output Y219, this is the feed hold signal to the CNC. This signal must be ON in order to cycle start."

    Good Luck



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    This forum is great. what started out as a lousy day has really shaped up as it is coming to a close. Thanks 123cnc, you are right I found that out talking to a mits guy in chicago (not nearly as friendly as the fella in california). He told me it (feed hold) was normally closed and should have 24vdc across it, I got 22.8 and like a real idiot switched the multimeter to ohms, and I shorted out the power supply...boy I thought I just bought the machine and the service to fix it right then and there. I thought I was going to be ill for about three hours. turns out there is a reset switch in the back. Error messages went away, and a few hours later we found out from the previous owners that the door interrupt switch needed to be turned on, and that was the cause to all the problems. I have seen it change tools and move around, how exciting! and to top it off I just got my big router hooked up and moving, what a pain that has been. Warning to anyone thinking about a Shopbot: you better be creative because there are alot of holes in the assembly information. I am sure the machine will operate great, but if I had it to do all over again I think I would like to have one delivered pre-assembled or build my own from scratch. It has been nearly a week and a half of assembly with a new problem just about every day. I sure am ready to make some chips. Thanks everybody. Rejean, I will take your advice about the chair and a soda, I need to stock up on Squirt.



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    It's usually something simple, isn't it? The door interlock is bypassed so often, I didn't even think about it. Glad you got it working.



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    Default door switch

    mmmmmmmmm the door switch..... shame on us not thinking about that so simple like caprirs said.......



  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stonebarnfarm View Post
    Chris, Have you had any luck with the spindle portion of your retro fit. I have purchased and been testing the VSD from Granite Devices for the AC servos and I am almost to the solution. The next step is the spindle drive but I am not sure where to start. Any thoughts? DSE
    Sorry for not replying earlier. I have done some work on the spindle, mostly repairing the old drive. I've decided, however, to replace the drive as it is hard to control from standard controls due to the -10v - +10v control signal and the old style feedback.

    So I bought a new (from ebay) spindle drive. I'll post the specs as I get things closer to running.

    Chris.

    List of parts sources for CNC builders - http://www.CNCsources.net
    Dyna Mechtronics 4400C Conversion - CNC bed mill w/toolchanger to Mach3 conversion - http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50787


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    Quote Originally Posted by wowhuh View Post
    I have the opportunity to purchase a DM4800 for cheap. It has a mitsu meldas m3 control. It has not been run in some time, is this machine likely to be friendly to work with. I have not found a 4800 model mentioned in any threads. can anybody help? I can get it for $2500. It is hard to believe that it wouldn't be worth that much in scrap metal. any suggestions of where to look for big problems? I'm a newbie to all this, just looking for a machine to get my foot in the door- already have a new shopbot and want something to machine metal.
    $2500 is a good price IF everything major seems to be working. By major, I mean the spindle and all axes move with the current controller. Otherwise, you might be in for a lot more money.

    I figure that a conversion to current specs using typical hardware and software often seen on CNCzone (Mach3, Gecko drives, etc) will cost around $1500 if all the drives are working OK, $2000 if you want the tool changer to work as well and significantly more if you have to replace any motors. Note that the newer enclosed machines (e.g. with the Meldas controls) use servos rather than steppers which will cost even more if something is broken.

    You also have to figure that it will take you something like 4-6 man weeks to retrofit a machine if it needs it. Also, the BT-30 tooling is not that easy to find.

    HOWEVER, the upside of this is that you can have a really good compact bed mill for less than $5k, which is pretty insane. And, when you have everything working with modern controls, it will likely be worth more than what you put into it.

    Chris.

    List of parts sources for CNC builders - http://www.CNCsources.net
    Dyna Mechtronics 4400C Conversion - CNC bed mill w/toolchanger to Mach3 conversion - http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50787


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    Default Progress on 4400

    So, I did finally get the 4400 moving with Mach3 using some bridge boards I built, but it's really very slow and I was still having some issues trying to reuse existing components.

    Rather than continue fighting against all the old hardware, I finally decided to convert the whole machine to servos as I already had some of the hardware laying around. It's a lot more cash (around $1000), but I think it will be worth it in the long run.

    Since the machine already has NEMA34 mounts, this is a pretty easy task. I ordered some NEMA34 servos from Keling, along with the appropriate power supply. I already had a bunch of Geckos from another project, so I'll be using those. This should simplify everything greatly and give better performance.

    On of the main issues was that there are only homing switches on this machine, so I need to retrofit some limit switches as well. Another issue is that the limit switches are NO, which is not exactly safe, particularly with faster servos.

    So, in sum, I'm basically replacing all the electronics in the cabinet, keeping some of the wiring and power supplies.

    If anyone needs any of the old electronics, please PM me. I'll have everything from the steppers back available shortly.

    Chris.

    List of parts sources for CNC builders - http://www.CNCsources.net
    Dyna Mechtronics 4400C Conversion - CNC bed mill w/toolchanger to Mach3 conversion - http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50787


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Dyna Mechtronics 4400 (DM4400, dyna myte) reference + brochures &amp; photos

Dyna Mechtronics 4400 (DM4400, dyna myte) reference + brochures &amp; photos