The K2 Z Axis Indicator - anyone know about it ?

[Geetar-ist]

Im looking for a Z axis indicator, the reason is I do programs that require tool change and wondered if this could be semi automated using the indicator that K2 sell.
I would change the tool by hand and then what im hoping to do is set the machine running again, it zero's the Z axis automatically and then continues with the program.

anyone used this tool yet ?

will it even be able to do that..

[hindocarina]

Don't know the item you are talking about, but I've been looking at this site for a while: http://www.midwestrapidtool.com/

You mentioned in another thread that you'd list the problems you've had with your K2...I'm curious to know.

[Geetar-ist]

hindo, yes I haev had a lot of problems, without a doubt the worst thing though is the support from K2, I will be writing a "living with" kind of article about the K2 I have before too long..

[sploo]

Hi Geetar-ist,

What issues are you having with your K2? I've been running a KG3925 for a couple of years now, and despite a few troubles, it's been reasonably good.

I have a suspicion I'm probably not using it anywhere near as much as you though.

[Geetar-ist]

well, I have had issues with repeatability - routing the same thing in the same place more than once, with reference to the home position - ive managed to solve this.

I had a few instances of the machine suddenly doing strange things... I was once routing a guitar neck and instead of carving a contour the machine suddenly stopped and plunged into the middle of the neck at high speed whie fitted with a 1" bit, I jumped on the e-stop before the machine pulled itself apart thankfully. I never found out what the problem with that was, I ran the same program half an hour later and it was fine.

by far the worst issue I had was with the long axis (mine is Y) seeming to slip. there was some position error that i couldnt get to the bottom of. in the end I found it, the belt drive sproket grub screws had loosened and then fallen out, when I removed the motor drive cover the grub screws fell out, there was no evidence that they had ever been loctite'd in either which was very poor assembly.

I am currently trying to brace the x axis beam as there is a great deal of deflection, I did contact K2 about this and I got the answer "slow the feed rate" well I did mention the feed rate was less than 40ipm and that the cut depth was about 4mm in timber - an easy cut ! - the deflection is awful and leads to a lot of gouge. I can grab the router and pull it gently in the y direction and deflect the cutter by about 2mm while watching the x axis beam flex.

add to that every time I have contacted K2 the support has been rubbish.

having said all that, I would buy another one but for no other reason than I would have zero learning curve, ive been looking around for a more stable higher spec routing machine but the prices for that stuff is 12k ++..

I do use it every day, sometimes for more than 8 hours but then it may lie dormant for up to a week and I service it during that time too.

as our cousins across the pond say, YMMV

[sploo]

Hi - thanks for the detailed post.

I have had the machine (I guess actually the control box) trip out a few times. This causes it to stop dead, though the router of course still runs.

With a bit of care in placing my X/Y zero point to a known reference (i.e. home the machine, move to a specific point, then zero X & Y) I can get back to that exact spot and restart the job should it trip out. It will of course cut air until it gets to the point where the previous run halted, but I've had reasonable success with that.

Fortunately I've never had it plunge into a workpiece like you. Bit scary that.

My long axis is a bit noisy under rapids, and it causes the gantry to vibrate, though it doesn't appear to have caused any issues when cutting.

Interesting point about the grub screws. I should probably check them on my machine.

Deflection - yea, I get that too. Not bad, but I do notice minor 'tide marks' on jobs with multiple passes. They did advise me to slightly undercut shapes, then finish with a full depth pass at a slow speed. I do use this on occasion, but it's not always practical. I guess there are plenty of machines where the cutting head weighs more than the entire KG3925, so massive strength can't be expected.

If I had the space, I think I'd have a go at building a MechMate as a next step up, but I guess that would cost a fair whack too.

You're using your machine way more than mine. I don't have the run times to hand, but I suspect it's averaged less than 1 hour per day since I bought it. I have found that regular greasing of the ball screws and rails seems to keep the mechanical parts pretty smooth though.

As you say, you'd buy another one, and I think I would too. There are certainly issues with the machine, but for the price I've been pretty happy with what it produces.

Keep up the cutting!

[mactec54]

Geetar-ist
No kind of gismo will help you with doing tool off sets, I would say that you would be wasting your money.

If you are running Mach3 you can set up many tools. Before starting a job, once you have homed the machine you then set up your tool #1 & by using the tool offset #1 you set it in Mach, Tool #2 etc

So the tools/cutters go in the same place in the spindle each time you change one, you can put a collar on your cutter or a stop inside the spindle so your cutters will be the same length each time you change them & you will call it in your G code program

Z2.
T1 Tool number one
G54
S12000
G90G0X0Y0
G43Z1.H1 This is your tool offset you have set in your control

You do this for each tool & you are good to go no Gismo needed

[Geetar-ist]

Originally Posted by mactec54 Geetar-ist No kind of gismo will help you with doing tool off sets, I would say that you would be wasting your money. If you are running Mach3 you can set up many tools. Before starting a job, once you have homed the machine you then set up your tool #1 & by using the tool offset #1 you set it in Mach, Tool #2 etc So the tools/cutters go in the same place in the spindle each time you change one, you can put a collar on your cutter or a stop inside the spindle so your cutters will be the same length each time you change them & you will call it in your G code program Z2. T1 Tool number one G54 S12000 G90G0X0Y0 G43Z1.H1 This is your tool offset you have set in your control You do this for each tool & you are good to go no Gismo needed

Thanks for that, I decided not to go for teh gizmo, I just setup a new z height every time I change a tool, I hadnt even considered using the offsets - doh !

[gregyancey]

Originally Posted by sploo I have had the machine (I guess actually the control box) trip out a few times. This causes it to stop dead, though the router of course still runs.

I've had this happen too when using the feed rate override in Mach 3. I believe it also scales the rapid transfer (G00) speeds as well and if you're not careful you can quickly exceed what the machine can do. I keep my rapid transfer speed on my 3925 to 120IPM and it works fine but I try not to use the FRO control anymore.

[CNCRob]

Originally Posted by Geetar-ist Im looking for a Z axis indicator, the reason is I do programs that require tool change and wondered if this could be semi automated using the indicator that K2 sell. I would change the tool by hand and then what im hoping to do is set the machine running again, it zero's the Z axis automatically and then continues with the program. anyone used this tool yet ? will it even be able to do that..

My wife was going to get me the indicator that K2 sells(actually I was paying $140 and she was paying the rest) for Valentines. I sent them an email asking a question and they replied, I sent them another email asking one more question about the wiring requirements and I also asked them to send me an invoice; they never replied. I then went looking at a Mach 3 pendant I was thinking about purchasing last summer but never got around to it. Here is the link to their website http://www.texasmicrocircuits.com/. Anyway I ended up ordering one of the Mach3 Pendants and one of the ZTO's. The ZTO sets the bit height. I have to say this has been one of the best products I have ever bought for my CNC. It don't require any software or macros to be installed in Mach. It's just plug and play. Just plug the ZTO into the hand held pendant set the ZTO on the material you want to machine. When the bit touches the ZTO, the unit automatically resets Z0 to the top of the material. I have used it many times since I have had it and its been dead on every time. Alot closer than I was able to do manually. Below is a photo of my unit.

[Mangus]

Am I reading/seeing that right - that the ZTO takes up 2+" of my 5.5" of Z travel? Everything else seems well thought out, but that seems like a silly limitation for a ZTO.

[CNCRob]

Originally Posted by Mangus Am I reading/seeing that right - that the ZTO takes up 2+" of my 5.5" of Z travel? Everything else seems well thought out, but that seems like a silly limitation for a ZTO.

Hi,
My ZTO only takes up about 1.5" , My router only has a 5" Z travel and I can zero a bit on top of a 1.75" blank sitting on a .75" vacuum form with my bit sticking out of the router 1.9375" with out any problems. Hope this helps- Robbie