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Thread: Confused

  1. #25
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    Penny wise and poind foolish

    Gingah,
    Please understand that this reply is just an old farts 2 cents worth, but as an "Old fart", I've got a half century of cents from which to reply.
    One of the primary benifits, therefore objectives, of CNC is precision and accuracy. One of the primary drawbacks is how much it costs. Getting up and running is exciting, and we can't wait to see those motors spinning. The controller is the most expensive part of the machine, no matter how you look at it. As such, unlike guide rods, bearings, skate wheels, lead-screws, lead-nuts, gantry materials, et al, etc, it is the one thing that can not be inexpensively up-graded on down the road, after your project has taken it's first tenuous baby steps, and shown you that it indeed can make good use of a pair of quality athletic shoes. Swapping out all-thread for acme screw-stock, hardware store quality nuts for self compensatimg anti-backlash nuts, is not going to represent a big loss. Budget being tight, those are the places to scrimp now, if need be, upgrading later. Not so with the controller. Along with overall rigidity, lead-screws and lead-nuts, it's the most important part governing this acuracy and precision. Scrimp elsewhere if you must, but not here.
    Now, I have absolutely NO asociation with Hobby CNC what so ever, but I must concurr that the Hobby CNC controller is the way to go. Get the biggest motors they have. The 3 Amp 305's. It's just not worth saving the 5 or 10 bucks not to. I can tell you from LOTTS of experience, they will go heads-up with most 400 Oz. motors, and many 500! They use all the power the board will output, and have very low inductance. That low inductance is where that power comes from.
    I have been the proud owner of, well, up in the 3 digits, of HCNC controllers, so I like to feel like I've got some experience with them. By all means, if you can possibly afford it, go with the 4 axis PRO kit. I know, I know, money's tight, and that 4 axis is $20 more. If you ever have an axis go down, (it happens, usually due to a sloppy motor cable splice, faulty connector, piece of something getting into the enclosure causing a short), ESPEACIALLY if your machine is putting a little food on the table, or cranking out a piece for a cranky, client, a moment or two reconfiguring your software, and you're back in business, using that, "Spare", axis. That 20 bucks has paid for itself and then some. The PRO controller is so much better, in so many areas, there's not any point in going over it. That's why the AUPC's are discontinued. If you are concerned about power, get the PRO. If not, GET THE PRO. NOW,.........
    Don't look at it as a board and motors, and that's what it costs. That's not reality. You don't know it, you can't see it, but take it from the many folks that have actually kept track of what it all finally added up to, and, well, most of them just finally QUIT adding it up to eliminate the shock. Yes, you've got that old tackle box, and you don't need fuses, and you can just pull the plug to turn it off, and that old parallel / centronics cable can be cut up and soldered in, and as long as you don't really put it in a real enclosure, that desk fan will blow it down cool enough and a wadd of tape will keep it up off the bottom of whatever, so it's not going to cost but a couple hundred bucks. That old PC's got a good power supply to modify, and you'll STILL end up with a couple hundred bucks in it, if it works, at least for a while.
    I have shopped, and shopped , and shopped, and you can not beat the Hobby CNC "Package". If you're going to bild your own controller, and you're not going to be penny wise and pound foolish, get the "Package", get the 4 axis package, and get the 3, amp, 305 motors. The package contains virtually EVERYTHING but a transformer, (20 bucks), and an enclosure. (the modified PC power supply's no longer even recommended), Period. That's it. And that's everything to build a VERY NICE, TIP-TOP, CONTROLLER! Even buying in bulk, and I mean bulk, (I'm sitting across from 3,500 Ft. of the recommended 6 conductor motor cable), I could not do better. You buy, (in my oppinion), THEE best controller in this class, Thee most powerfull unipolar wired motors in this class, and everything else for just about gratis. All the power supply parts, fan, (24 volt fans aren't near as redilly available or cheap as 12 volt), guard, motor cables, fuse holders, switch, new parallel cable, power cable, heat-sink, heat-shrink, connectors, big handful of hardware, and on, and on, even self stick lables. EVERYTHING! OK. Just about done. One more plug. I also have absolutely nothing to do with Pactec. I've heard people say that's too expensive. I've never found a suitable enclosure for even $5 less. Now, "I'ts plastic!", they cry. OK. They're right. But,......I've shipped controllers the world over, and back when you still could, used "USPS Economy Surface", shipping. (had one box take 3 months to reach a coastal village in OZ). I had one take such a hard hit that it drove a motpor shaft into the side of another motor to the point that it looked like somebody took a 1/4" punch anf hit it with a 16 Oz. hammer. Ruined the motor, but the controller worked perfectlty, ( I DO pack very well), and there was not a single little flaw in the Pactec case. And that's with 6 pounds of transformer bolted to the bottom of it. AND, no matter what you use, you're going to have to locate and drill / cut ALLOT of mounting, vent, and fan holes. The HCNC package, includes with their most excellent instructions and wiring diagrams, FULL SIZED TEMPLATES, for all the case machining! Being an old tool and die dude, I've now made hard tooling to make all the holes, and can do 100 an hour, but before that, those templates were worth their weight in gold! OK. I honestly think that you can not do it cheaper. I KNOW that, for the money, you can't do it better! That's my 2 cents worth, and my 2 fingers are plum tuckered out! Thanks for listening, and,.........................................
    ALL THE BEST!
    Mike Beck
    www.mikebeck.org


  2. #26
    www.joescnc.com joecnc2006's Avatar
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    Mike, i can not agree with you anymore. I have had 3 kits from HobbyCNC.

    it ran my 06 for a year and a half, i sold the machine and the controllor and now 2 and 1/2 yrs it is still running. and thats with the 200oz/in motors.

    I have the 4 axis pro, and have it hooked to my 4x4 and you can see the video's of it jogging. the board makes the motors run very very smooth compared to some bi-polar drives i have tried.

    I hooked up g201's in its place on the same 305oz/in motors (425oz/in in bi-polar and really could not tell a difference, to get the correct performance out of the gecko's i need more than the 36vdc psu i used.

    So to me the HobbyCNC Pro kit is the way to go if you do not want to spend for Gecko's and a more expensive PSU.

    Don't get me wrong, the gecko's are superior drives, but you will need to run them with more power to take full advantage of them.

    Joe


  3. #27
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    Those packages seem to be overpriced, considering it's a board plus 3-4 motors. Say if I went for the "#23-205-DS8, 205oz-in unipolar rating, 3v, 3A, 200 S/R, 2.2mH, Size #23, Dual Shaft, 8 wire", would that be enough power to allow for guitar body making?
    Web Designer and DIY-fan


  4. #28
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    The "top" 4 axis package (what is the 4th axis?) goes for 335 + shipping (390 bucks in all), which is almost the price of three fully cut guitar bodies. And more or less a fourth of my current money "stack".

    I mean, I need power to cut hard wood - not power to cut guitar bodies of of solid steel. Basically said; if there is money to save by ordering sinlge parts, then that is a important point. I'd like to build a CnC, but not spend all my cash doing it.
    Web Designer and DIY-fan


  • #29
    www.joescnc.com joecnc2006's Avatar
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    you can get by with the 3 axis pro board for 280 plus shipping, but i would not get the 205oz motors when you can get the 305 for 15 more, and be safer in your cuttings.

    Joe


  • #30
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    The 205s are probably enough, Joe ran the original prototype on them, but I would go with the 305s. There is a very small diff in motor prices.
    The kit includes other things besides the board and motors.
    "Included in this assemble-it-yourself package kit is a cooling fan and guard, DB25 Parallel Port Cable, stepper motor cable, hookup wire, fuse holders and fuses, filter capacitor, switch, 35A 600V bridge diode, heat shrink tubing for the motor/cable splices, grommets, labels, ALL hardware, instructions, wiring diagram, and full size template drawings to help eliminate layout errors"
    You could buy just the board and motors and source the other parts somewhere else if you can find them cheaper.


  • #31
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    It is probably faster to cut guitar bodies on a bandsaw.
    Building a CNC will probably cost more than 4 times the cost of the motors and controller. There is thread in the Joes forum a poll that shows approcximately how much people spent building their machines. You may want to look at that.
    If you are looking at this as business venture to build guitars, spend your money on other things. A CNC is not nescessary to build guitars and I think most small luthiers would consider it a luxury, if not heresy.


  • #32
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    But a CnC will always be useful for any future projects - be they guitars or not. I suspect that if I had a CnC woodrouter of my own, I would make more homemade speakers (my current ones are made by hand-drilling and handsawing). I found two sites that sell what I consider to be fair priced CnC stuff:

    Boards etc:
    http://www.diycnc.co.uk/

    Motors:
    http://www.motioncontrolproducts.co....ex.php?cPath=4 - They have stepper motors from 17-20 dollars.

    The preferable thing by ordering stuff from the UK, is that it will save me a lot of postage. And somehow the post office processes it faster than goods from the US. A problem about bandsaws is that it is very easy to go to far, and very difficult getting the right curves for the guitar (I tried making curves with a bandsaw once).

    As for cooling parts of the system and powering it, could it be done with computer parts? Ever since my first computer, my brother always told me to keep any leftover parts; now leaving me with 4-5 small fans, and a couple of big ones, as well as a couple of power supplies and a lot of wires to go between a lot of weird connections.
    Web Designer and DIY-fan


  • #33
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    Not familiar with those, maybe someone else can comment.
    Remember there is a lot more than just motors needed. Looks to me like the complete driver kits are in the same price range.
    http://www.motioncontrolproducts.co....ex.php?cPath=5


  • #34
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    Was thinking more of motors from motion control products and boards etc from diycnc store.
    Web Designer and DIY-fan


  • #35
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    Honestly, I own the HobbyCNC 4 Axis Board....and its wonderful. Not only is Dave Rigotti of HobbyCNC a great guy, who offers excellent support, but he also has amazing products. And you are definitely getting your moneys worth, trust me if it does cost a little more than other boards/motors then its worth that little extra. When we (my friend tyler, who is building the machine with me) first got the board we somehow accidentally fried one of the axis. And its a good thing we got the 4 axis board then, because it was just a quick fix in the software. No need to buy a new board or anything.

    Listen to these guys, they know what they are talking about and are very experienced. It will pay off in the end.


  • #36
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    .


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