Seriously considering a Joes 4x hybrid... questions first.

[racedirector]

Hi all you Joes fans.

I have been looking at building a Joes router for a while now and almost started on a 2006 R2. However, the more I look into 8020 based machines the more I like them for expandability.

Now before I convince my wife that it is a good idea to spend yet more money on actual plans I just wanted to know a few things.

I don't have room for a full 4x4 so I wanted to build a machine based on what it available locally in racks for the rack & pinion. I priced r&p today and was pleasantly suprised by what I found.

So the machine I have in mind is based upon 2 racks 1500mm long (500mm + 1000mm) for the Y axis and 1000mm on the X axis. Is this somewhat odd size reasonably accomplished within the 4x4 hybrid "guidelines"?

And so I can get some forecast costs to SWMBO can someone tell me what size of 8020 is used in the machine? The unistrut is a no brainer, its just the 8020 that I need the size of to price locally (there's a local supplier of 8020 within 1/2 of me!)

A question on the plans... is the 8020 that is used metric or imperial? And do the plans include info on using rack & pinion or is that a extra thing I must work out?

Once I have answers to these questions and have thrown some ballpark figures at my internal bank I'll grab the plans and start buying bits.

Thanks in advance for any answers..

Cheers
Bruce

[racedirector]

31 views and no answers huh? Looks like I will have to join the secret society that is Joes 4x4 Hybrid to get any questions answered, thank goodness buying a car or TV isn't like that.

I am going off to build a buildyourcnc book machine of sorts for cutting out the MDF parts of a 4x4 and for learning on. I should be all ready by the time I get the 4x4 plans (and admission to the secret society) and start building one.....

[rocketflier]

Originally Posted by racedirector 31 views and no answers huh? Looks like I will have to join the secret society that is Joes 4x4 Hybrid to get any questions answered, thank goodness buying a car or TV isn't like that.

:eyeroll::headshake:

Originally Posted by racedirector I am going off to build a buildyourcnc book machine of sorts for cutting out the MDF parts of a 4x4 and for learning on. I should be all ready by the time I get the 4x4 plans (and admission to the secret society) and start building one.....

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/joes_c...x4_hybrid.html

Joes CNC Model 2006 - CNCzone.com-The Largest Machinist Community on the net!
-> 'Search this forum'
"joes 4x4 cost"

I don't see the logic in building the other first...

[racedirector]

Wasn't just the cost factor, it was the feasibility of building one based on available rack size, And the logic of building another simple machine first was to get familiar with CNC machining and to have something to learn on. The 4x4 journey will be far more expensive than a simple MDF machine meaning time from start to end would be greater. All the electronics on the MDF machine would transfer to the 4x4, the only thing that wouldn't would be the MDF and the threaded rod. I just bought ALL the required MDF for $84.00 and will probably have enough to do the MDF parts on the 4x4 when I get to that.

[t0pquark]

Hey Bruce,

One thing to keep in mind, it's called a "2006" for a reason. This forum isn't quite as hopping as it once was ;-)

I will tell you that I currently have a "book build" machine, and had been planning to go with a 4x4 for my next machine. After purchasing the plans, and reading through lots of threads on the private forum I realized that, for ME, taking a more measured next step to a Joes 2006 made more sense. I really learned a TON about CNC building, CNC components, and building to someones plans from working through the book build. I'm using that machine to cut out the parts for the 2006. Taking that a step pushes me further without the large cost disparity between a 2006 vs a 4x4 vs what I really "need" from an in home machine.

No matter WHAT you build, there are things you won't like about what you did, and you will immediately start thinking about things to tweak or change and "the next one". Again, for ME, taking smaller steps on that path gives me room to sort of grow into a new machine that's at my knowledge/skill level and not risk making rookie mistakes on a costlier machine, such as the 4x4, that can be truly great when built and used along side a good foundation of knowledge.


For what it's worth,

t0pquark

[racedirector]

Hi T0pquark

Thanks for the reply, you sound like you are in a similar place to me albeit you have a CNC machine.

I change my mind more than our Governor General changes her clothes (Aussies will get that one) and on the way to buy my MDF I decided to build a JGRO instead. I originally planned to build a 2006 but not having access to a CNC meant that I needed to hand cut one and my confidence level dropped when I had to change the plans to suit our metric sizings. The JGRO seems to be a little more tolerant to metric changes so that will become my learning machine.

Like you I didn't want to jump in boots and all on a 4x4 but that is definitely where I want to go in the end. With another CNC machine I can then prove to my wife that it was a good idea to build one which will butter her up more for the expense of the 4x4. Of course I plan to grab the plans to see what I am in for and to read what others have done on Joes forum. Once I am confident enough (and have enough cash stacked away) I can start building one knowing full well the pitfalls and problems to avoid.

Cheers
Bruce

[rocketflier]

Originally Posted by racedirector Wasn't just the cost factor, it was the feasibility of building one based on available rack size, And the logic of building another simple machine first was to get familiar with CNC machining and to have something to learn on. The 4x4 journey will be far more expensive than a simple MDF machine meaning time from start to end would be greater. All the electronics on the MDF machine would transfer to the 4x4, the only thing that wouldn't would be the MDF and the threaded rod. I just bought ALL the required MDF for $84.00 and will probably have enough to do the MDF parts on the 4x4 when I get to that.

See, I look at the MDF and ask 'why isn't that aluminum', when I really mean 'I could do that with steel'. I can see starting out MDF and slowly upgrading components. I can't see building one, then tossing it by building another outta MDF. If I had to build one right away, I'd likely get the 4x4 plans and scale it down in a way I could use most of those component to expand it. But I'd have everything at the level I wanted to start with (or most everything). It would be R&P. I'd likely have something like the CastCNC trucks all around. Then to expand, new rails and racks. Motors, pinions, trucks,... most everything else to be reused.

Myself, I see 2 machines. 1 strictly a benchtop with ballscrews focusing on detail. Etching, aluminum, that sorts of things.

Then a larger (unknown) cncrouter for larger panels & whatnot with R&P.

Not to mention a third for plasma, but that's neither here nor there.

Spend a lot of time in that 4x4 thread. The questions you asked come up over and over again. Searching 2006 forum showed other similar questions including imperial /metric and suppliers from your neck of the woods.

[gully]

Hey Bruce,
I thought you were settled on a 2006?

You are showing all the classic symtoms of the "Im not sure what to build now" phobia
It's part of the whole I want to build my own CNC delema that a lot of people seem to go through, and is quite normal.

The best ill considered advise that Dr.Gully can give you is you need to have a good think about what you want to actually use a CNC machine for.

Write a pros and cons list for all the CNC designs you are thinking about
then you can make an informed choice based on that designs ability to meet your requirements

You should also consider as part of the process what software is required to make your CNC produce the parts you want, and the cost involved.
In many cases building the actual machine can be the cheap part of the whole process.

Gully

[racedirector]

Originally Posted by gully Hey Bruce, I thought you were settled on a 2006? You are showing all the classic symtoms of the "Im not sure what to build now" phobia It's part of the whole I want to build my own CNC delema that a lot of people seem to go through, and is quite normal.

Ahhhh, was that me, are you sure? The more I looked into hand cutting the 2006 the more I hesitated. I went through the whole build a throw away to build the 2006, back to the 2006 only.... to nothing because I couldn't decide.

I started looking into CNC 10 or so years ago but in those days it was well out of my league and I don't really know what brought the ideas back again. I think it was to do with my model railroading and while I was researching how to cut perfect circles for one of my scratchbuilding projects.

The best ill considered advise that Dr.Gully can give you is you need to have a good think about what you want to actually use a CNC machine for. Write a pros and cons list for all the CNC designs you are thinking about then you can make an informed choice based on that designs ability to meet your requirements

As above I started to give me something to create things for my model railroading. Then the more I thought about it the more I wanted to do. Furniture, cabinet doors, that router table I have been putting off for years. Then more thoughts came, parts for my car projects in aluminium, interior parts etc etc.

Now once my wife and kids knew what I was doing the list got even bigger. Through all of this the size requirements for a cutting area grew.

You should also consider as part of the process what software is required to make your CNC produce the parts you want, and the cost involved. In many cases building the actual machine can be the cheap part of the whole process. Gully

Yup, knew this side of it. To start with something like CamBam or Cut2D will do me fine. When I am more proficient and need to get fancier I can go up from there. I know already that Mach3 is the way to go over EMC, I bought Ger's Mach3 2010 screen set the other day in preparation purely because it is more "Windoze" like, I was totally confused the first time I looked at Mach 3. I am a Mac / Linux guy, grew a hatred for WIndows from my software development days

The die is cast now, I am building a JGRO to start with. As above, I bought the MDF from Mr Ply & Wood today and a guy in Queensland is getting pricing for 1/2" ACME screws for me. I am ordering my bearings from VBX tonight so I should be good to go by the weekend. Being a stay at home Dad I have plenty of time on my hands, it's just money thats lacking!

Cheers
Bruce

[vtx1029]

I kind of went after cnc the same way. I bought a small table top unit from Microcarve here on the zone. Its a stepping stone for me. I'm still debating if I will build a 4x4 or 4x8 loosely biased on cnc router parts kits . But I have no regrets except for not buying a gecko540 and steppers that I could move to the next machine.

Good luck.

[bgriggs]

Hi,

Most people are busy This time of year so give the rest of the Joe's builders a break because we can't be everywhere at once. I will try and answer some of your questions about the Hybrid. Please note I am just a satisfied customer and active poster on the forum. I make no money from or have any association with Joe's forum.

First off the reason the plans cost $100 is because it supports the forum and allows the massive amount of customer service that is available on the forum. Currently there are 123 build logs of machines under construction. there are also 76 completed lead screw machines, 21 R&P completed machines and 94 R&P under construction. Additionally there are 71 threads for the Cast machine. 94 photo galleries, and a whole bunch more. There is also 66672 total posts on 3339 topics. If that isn't enough for your $100 entry fee then consider the Huge database of cut files and clip art. The value of the forum is well worth it and I defy you to find one person who bought plans who doesn't think it is worth it.

Go to ebay and buy your extrusion from 8020 garage sale. If it looks like the one in the pictures it will work. I won't tell you the stock number because that is also part of what you pay for, a detailed Bill Of Materials and a list of sources.

The plans include details on how to build the R&P version as well as a new welded steel base (optional) all at no additional charge. There are several detailed build logs of machines built 2'x4'.

It will cost you between $2000 and $4000 to build the machine. The R&P version is the least expensive version to build. the majority of the costs are for electronics. Gecko drive add to the cost but hobbycnc works great (I use it) and save a ton of money. You decide, some have spent about $2000 just on electronics but they have really nice machines.

Now for my rant: I am constantly hearing folks complain about having to pay for plans. If you want something for free there are plenty of machines plans out there. Go get one. All choices are unique to the individual who makes them. I chose to buy plans and don't regret it. I'm certain which ever way you choose will be the right choice for you. Peace.

Bill

[racedirector]

Hi Bill

Thanks for all the info, that really helps my knowledge level on what is happening in 4x4 world. Please do not get me wrong, I wasn't complaining about the cost of the plans, I have no problem with someone making some $$$ out of their time. I suspect I was a bit hasty and grumpy in my original post. Now I have read pretty much the entire 4x4 thread, in addition to your post, I am quite satisfied that I could build a 2x4 or similar machine from the plans. First up though will be my learnings machine and the gathering of funds for the eventual 4x4 build.

BTW, have been watching the videos of your machine plus visiting the MakerMasters site and am duly impressed. I just hope that any machine I eventually build comes end up being as good as yours (and others) machines.

Cheers
Bruce