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  1. #61
    Member ger21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2000che
    Has anyone Used EMT piping? it is thinner, and i was thinking in this design where the rails are fixed and supported they might workout.
    Joe
    After moving my gantry back and forth by hand, it looks like the bearings are making flats on the galvanized pipe, but only on one side. I think if that's the case, the flatter they get the better, as there will be more contact area. Time will tell what will happen. Keep in mind this is with a 50lb gantry, and the bearings tightened up until there is no play at all.

    Gerry

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    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Registered spalm's Avatar
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    “making flats on the galvanized pipe, but only on one side”
    Is that like a flat tire that in only flat on the bottom?

    I used black pipe. With a build like this, and so much tension on the pipes, black paint ends up covering the wheels. It didn’t seem to matter that much, but somehow it does not seem like a good thing. I never did sand it off the rails. But even with galvanized, it might be a good idea to sand a smooth track for the bearings.

    Steve



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    Member ger21's Avatar
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    No need to sand them, they are really smooth. The flat is on one pipe, but not the other, and it's very small right now, maybe 1/16" wide. It might just be a softer area on that one pipe.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
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    Mach3 2010 Screenset
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    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  4. #64
    www.joescnc.com joecnc2006's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ger21
    No need to sand them, they are really smooth. The flat is on one pipe, but not the other, and it's very small right now, maybe 1/16" wide. It might just be a softer area on that one pipe.
    Yea the Galv. Gas pipe does not need sanding, Ger21 maybe try to rotate that one pipe? if possible, Mine are not screwed in they are help by pressure and an end pocket the right radius of the pipe then torsion box screwed together.

    Joe



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    Registered spalm's Avatar
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    OK, guess I haven’t worked with galvanized much.

    Joe, looks like a pretty good Z bearing setup. It would allow someone to use non-precision rod also. You really have gotten good at plastic parts routing. I’m impressed.

    Steve



  6. #66
    www.joescnc.com joecnc2006's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spalm
    OK, guess I haven’t worked with galvanized much.

    Joe, looks like a pretty good Z bearing setup. It would allow someone to use non-precision rod also. You really have gotten good at plastic parts routing. I’m impressed.

    Steve

    Thanks Steve, I have you, ger21, lionclaw and others here on the zone to thank. It is more than just a hobby now.

    I enjoy reading here and also trying to combine ideas into something that works for me.

    Joe



  7. #67
    Member ger21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2000che
    Ger21 maybe try to rotate that one pipe?
    I can't without a lot of disassembly. It was an incredibly tight fit getting it together. But I don't see a problem with it right now, it rolls very smoothly.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  8. #68
    Member ger21's Avatar
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    I just took a closer look, and it looks like the one side has worn through the galvanizing. Maybe I will try to turn it when I'm installing the Z-axis. The other side has no signs of wear at all. Must be a bad spot on the EMT. I have a panel saw Which uses a similar bearing setup on the same size EMT, and it hasn't worn through with over 10 years of use, but the load is much lighter.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  9. #69
    www.joescnc.com joecnc2006's Avatar
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    I am using the gas pipe so mine is 1/8" thick I think i will just stick with that, but you are right it maybe the joint or something just in that spot.



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    Registered spalm's Avatar
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    Definition from Google:

    Define:Glavanized

    "A non-permanent metalic finish which wears off with abrasion."



  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by spalm
    Definition from Google:

    Define:Glavanized

    "A non-permanent metalic finish which wears off with abrasion."
    that would explain it, but on my x axis just testing it is already settled to the steel, but i still think it is better than the black pipeswith paint. plus i like the way it looks.



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    I know, I just couldn't resist.
    I was just trying to learn more and stumbled upon it.



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    Member sdantonio's Avatar
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    I suppose the way to get around both the color and non-permanent nature of the two pipe species is to go with 1 inch drill rod and jack up the cost and weight considerably. Oh, and after we have increased the weight of the machine by going to solid steel rods we may have to consider the concreet platform to hold the finished router.



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    Galvanized is a coating usually Zinc to protect a surface from corrosion. It can be put on by dipping, plating or spraying. It is softer than the base metal it is applied to and will eventually flake or chip off if something harder than it is ran back and forth over it.

    If it's not nailed down, it's mine.
    If I can pry it loose, it's not nailed down.


  15. #75
    www.joescnc.com joecnc2006's Avatar
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    Started on the Bottom Portion of the machine now..

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Joe's CNC Model 2006-1st-bottom-parts-jpg  


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    Hi Joe,

    I'm assuming from the shape of the tortion box ribs that it is skinned with 3/4 material on the top and open on the botton. You will add to the weight, marginally add to the cost but Greatly increase the strength of the box if you put a 3/4 skin on both the top and the bottom.

    JGRO once recomended a DIY article about building tortion boxes to Andy. I have a copy of that article that I saved as a pdf file if you want it. It's to large to post here as it is above the limit on file size.

    Steven



  17. #77
    www.joescnc.com joecnc2006's Avatar
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    you can e-maill it to me if you like (joe@lumenlab.com) but all the pressure will be from the sides and slightly from the top inwhich this is designed for it. I will have the small centerpieces all down the center 4" tall stagered using the two sets of 4-1/4" holes, glued and bolted, I do not believe it will flex at all, however i would like to see the artical Maybe the same one posted here showing how to build one? The top will be 3/4" mdf In essence having all of the torsion box except the bottom pieces.

    Joe



  18. #78
    Member ger21's Avatar
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    Steven is correct. Without the bottom, it's not a torsion box, and doesn't have anywhere near the same strength. Without the pipes, mine will only deflect about 1/64" with about 220 lbs on it, with a 59" span.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  19. #79
    Registered spalm's Avatar
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    Joe,

    You absolutely have to skin both sides of a torsion box. The skins will carry the stresses. If you only skin one side; it will act as a board with some bracing. It can still bend, as MDF can do. If you skin the other side also, and then try to flex it, one skin will have to compress while the other skin will have to stretch. MDF does not stretch very much, and it will be very strong. You should use lots of ribs and lots of glue for this trick to work. The two skins need to act on each other.

    I also used the same technique of skinning for strength with plastic laminate. If you securely glue it to both sides of a board and then try to flex it, one piece of laminate will have to stretch and one will have to compress. Just try to stretch a piece of Formica, as compared to bending it.

    Now as to why you need to do it here. I built a similar machine as this one and did not skin the bottom even though I new better (read lazy). The pressure you will have to apply from the sides will be quite high to keep the bearings running correctly on the pipes. This pressure on my smaller machine was enough to cause the table box to bow up about 1/8” in the middle. It took a couple of months for it to happen, so I didn’t see it at first.

    Steve



  20. #80
    www.joescnc.com joecnc2006's Avatar
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    ok i will do it, I understand what you are saying, I will look over the bottom portion and see the best way to add it, and maybe use 1/2" or 5/8" MDF, or i could simple add two 1-1/2" x 1 1/2" steel angle iron on the bottom and bolt it together, this will prevent it from bowing (see my second machine) I will look at both options and see what is best and easiest.

    Joe

    After reading and looking over the artical you sent me the steel idea will not work I will add the MDF on the bottom portion.

    Last edited by joecnc2006; 12-21-2005 at 11:15 AM.


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