For the love of GOD use metric!

[rokag3]

I do not think that american economic problems come from metric system. Let me remind you that here in europe (so metric) we are in the same @#%&!!!
The problem is greed and individalisme. Don't you think than this indian or chinese "monkey"engineer who had worked hard in there university like us and continue to work hard in there factory like some fewer of us will not like to be better paid ?
But if they ask and more important if they win, who will buy there product ?
And so they will be out of work.
In fact you go to the bank with a project if you say in the suburb of paris this do not sound as good as if you say in the suburb of ho chi minh ville or suburb of beijing
because the banker think . No unions no filter for the pulmon of "monkey" no real problems for polution no tax no control. Now if it has to work with the ancient greek egyptian mesopotamian imperial or metric those "monkey" will adapt themself.
So in a global world let's not consider people like "monkey" but consider each other sapiens sapiens . By protecting health dignity security of the others we protect us otherwise we will be and more probably our childrens will be the "monkey" of tomorow

[NC Cams]

tokag3" you bring up 2 points. Both valid yet both difficult to address.

Re: the metrification of USA. AT one time, only US fasteners and US mills/lathes were used in America. Simple enough, the rest of world would not tool up to make US bolts/threads as this was a "small market". Besides, the grade and quality of fasteners and proof testing was not worth the effort for such a small part of the global market.

By encouraging "metrification", the USA market was "opened up" to the import of fasteners. All companies who made bolts could now sell/dump their fasteners on USA market. Not a problem at first - it became a big problem as more and more fasteners got dumped here. Result.

The USA bolt fastener industry was decimated as low coast fasteners got "dumped" here. SOme wore very good quality. SOme were physical copes but junk quality. To make matters worse, newer very low cost off shore machining equipment went from metric only to metric and/or USA machining and also started to invade the USA..

I've heard of cases were USA premium "grade 8" fasteners were "copied" off shore for prices that were less than you could buy just the material in USA. Result: perfect PHYSICAL copies, very poor metalurgical copies. THe US aircraft industry ran into REAL problems with this sort of poor quality, offshore copy.

Re: offshore machinery: It has been shown/proven that a LOT of machinery was dumped here in the USA. The import of "chines" lathes has done much to make machinery very affordable for the USA hobbyist. Unfortunately, this rapid onslaught made it very difficult for legacy machinery builders like Bridgeport, South Bend and others to maintain their market shares in this now brutal economic pressure. THis pressure plus the passage of polution laws, safety laws and product liability laws made it more hard for the USA suppliers to compete with offshore "chinese copy" machinery.

The question then becomes "how do the offshore copies get made so cheap?". How do these offshore suppliers become the "Low cost suppliers?' and by so much of a difference?

Low cost surely must mean lower manufactuing costs as in lower labor costs, lower raw material costs, lower skilled labor costs and perhaps lower TOTAL energy costs (free government shipping, NO engergy taxes - compare street price of gast locally versuss anyplace else - all fuel costs the same at the well head - cost at pump for consumer varies greatly)..

Lower skilled labov is simple to understand. IF you do not have metallurgists on staff to make sure the bolt materials and other materials are TRULY to spec, there is a cost down effect there. If you use cheaper steel than "clean steel" or premium alloy steel, more cost down potential. Add the fact that low paid workers with NO benefits, no retirement and NO health care are making the stuff, you have an unbeatable low cost supplier advantage for offshore suppliers.

That was then and this is now. THe way things are going, we in USA will shortly be the highest skilled, best educated UNEMPLOYED workers in the world. THings are spiraling down at an unbelievable rate. GM Ford and DCX are essentialy bankrupt and may be driven into it fully by US congress.. WHen that happens, GLOBAL depression will ensure. perhaps then we may have the advantage of being the bst low cost QUALITY supplier. IMagine what would happen with low caost oil, reasonable benefits and a green based economy.

IF you feared the USA before, you'd better fear us even more with how competitive we can be on the upturn/rebound of what we have the capability to be.

Finally, I think the USA has proven how far it has progressed with regard to race and raespect for same during hte recent elections. Yes, some of the yesteryear politicians tried yesteryear politics, all to no avail. Thankfully we have moved on. Hopefully, this will evolved into a more intelligent global US policy as well. .

If you have NO emission laws and allow/force your workers to work in t dangerous polution levels, BIG cost down there. Eventually when these people get sick, this "low cost" will shift.

Proofe of this happening in USA can be learned by doing "mesothelioma" search. IT is a lung disease casued by the use of and poor management of asbestos. THis probm led to MANY bankruptcies of companies in USA. WHen yo do business in USA and have to comply with USA environmental laws, you are held responsible for health damage that ramshackle busines does to US employees. Since USA health and welfare laws do not apply to off shore sourced goods, these expensive worker preotection laws are not enforceable. More cost down benefit here for sure.

FInally the issue of banking. Bankers will only loan money to people who will repa it with interest. There have been MANY cases where global bankers have loaned money to help start new industries in developing countries. HOwever, when it comse to paying back the money, some tin pot dictator goes and "nationaliexes" the company. Simpy put, the government "Steals" the business away from teh rightful owner/developer and proclaums the business a "national asset'.. Since part of the reason why this asset becaome so GOOD of an asset is simle. LOw cost workers plus low cost environment, plus easy way to "steal" the business becomes "money pit of no return" for banker, he won't lend money to developing companies for simple and rightful fear of ever getting his money back. It is not the "Monkey" problem, it is the "gorillas' at the top of the heirarchy of the economic structure/government structure of these developing countries who are feared most by bankers.

IT is wrong for anyone to refer to another skilled or even semi skilled worker as "monkey". HOwever, in these times of economic duress, people are concerned, no fearful of their jobs. ANyone who has lost their job to an offshore company or offshore product, can/will blame anyone they feel as being responsible for their job/economic losses. THis is natural I think.

We have had the benefit of good unions to the point of excess in some cases here in USA. We have had the scurge of poor management. THe recent antics of the US car executives is an example. They fly 3 private jets to Washington toa ske for "government welfare relief" of 425 billion. Seems irrational when they fly in on a $20 dollar private jet instead of a $1000 first calss commercial flight. Hell, had they all flown in on 1 common jst, it would have LOOKED better than it did.

So now we have come to what may be the end of the lined. Business are decimated by off shore decimated and/or Government suported industureis. Jobs have been lost after being exported to off shore "low cost" suppliers. This is good for the consumer as this makes for low cost goods. HOWEVER< when/if the consumer has his jobe exported for the benefit of lowering cost of the goods his employer is producing, then employments becomes reality.

Has metrification "caused" all these problems? No. Has it helped create/amplify it, YES in no small way when you look at the WHOLE picture involved with it.