Buyer beware of Industrial Hobbies

[arizonavideo]

"You don't hire your friend you like that needs a job, you hire the cheapest person you can find who can barely do the job and fire them the first time they don't tie their shoes the way you like."

So this is where were at in the USA when your trying to do a good job and learn new things.

A good manager is someone who can get great work out of average people.

You might try to tie his shoes and show him how to work safely.

I think the next line will be " I just can't fine good help anymore"

[aarggh]

In my personal experience (and that includes almost 20 years in IT), only the most ignorant people I've come across in management have had no perception of value for good workers, let alone people who may not have had the "world" experience but just showed initiative and the ability to learn.

All the good managers I've seen on projects that actually succeeded, and this is an important aspect, have shown support and appreciation for good workers, while I've seen the same managers absolutely ream useless twats.

These managers have understood there is more cost to a project than just the wages of an employee. A manager who doesn't get this simple and very fact, and treats their staff badly is an idiot, all he achieves is people who then live down to his expectation, and then ultimately leave. When the venture or project is a fiailure, of course the useless staff will get the blame, not the idiot bean counters who sacrifice productivity and getting to market for a 3 month ROI and monkey wages. And we all can guess how much it costs in finding replacements, weeding out suitable staff, training them, etc, until they are productive. but then of course the cycle starts again. Where I worked the value put on replacing a skilled person was equivalent to a full years wages, this is not unrealistic in many fields.

That's not to say of course that less than useful managers further up stream haven't tried their hand at being useless bean counters, but a good manager tries his best to deflect that from affecting the workers productivity.

cheers,
Ian

[jetflatline]

I didn't like that way of running things and found a different job where I could be more reasonable with people who worked for me. Startups attracted a lot of people I didn't like working with -- the chance of being a millionaire brought in all sorts of greedy people with bad personalities.

What I did learn was a bit about matching the right talents to the right jobs. The talents you need to take phone calls and ship packages are different for what you need to write contracts or build out a complex networks and it's good to have a range of people in a group.

[iceowl]

These guys do seem overwhelmed. I also ordered my manual machine back in summer of last year (2011). At that point they told me there would be a long lead time and in fact, I felt they were trying to make sure I was absolutely committed to the wait before taking my order. I put 1/2 down as a deposit, and then later I actually increased the options on my order, so I wound up having less than 1/2 as a deposit right up until the end of year holidays.

I should say that I had no pressing project that required my mill, so I was not ever worried about the wait. Someone with a schedule hanging over their heads may have been more angry about things. The only thing that crossed my mind was whether or not they might be having business difficulties, and thus might cease to exist along with my deposit. But other folks were taking delivery one by one as far as I could tell. Tommy had sent out a mailing to those of us who were waiting, and we continued to converse using that mailing list for a while. Some folks were taking delivery, others were still waiting. At least Tommy was still in business. So my concerns were abated.

Then, after the holiday the fault of delay was mine, as I decided to pay off my balance over several months with and Tommy didn't balk at all at my delay. When I made my final payment in Feb, the mill showed up 2 weeks later. As options I got VFD + DRO + NT30. I just got it installed in its permanent location this past weekend.

All things being equal, I'm happy I waited.

Cheers,
Joe

[uhmgawa]

Anyone have recent feedback on the stability of IH? We'd considered purchase
of their 12Z mill which as I understand has somewhat of an evolving story. Eg,
mills aren't in stock however an improved version will be available in a few months
time. The proposition of waiting for a mill you haven't seen, perhaps hasn't been
manufactured, nor even designed yet demands a leap of faith far greather than we're
accustonmed to with other vendors.

The other concern which this thread raises is folks here appear to have been required
coughing up a substantial down payment presumably as IH's cash flow isn't conducive
to stocking mills. But to ask the question, has anyone actually purchased a mill from
stock without IH requiring a downpayment and waiting for months to take delivery?
In our case we could probably work out the wait. However having a sizable deposit
being held by a company which (as speculated by those here) may not be around
to deliver the purchase doesn't seem at all sane.

Alternatively can anyone offer any recent customer comments on "Machine Tools
Warehouse"? I wasn't aware of them until encountering this thread and it appears
they offer a mill quite similar to IH's 12Z.

Any advice much appreciated.

[jetflatline]

This isn't advice as much as my personal opinion, but if I was where I was before I bought the IH -- a few grand of savings and having to pick a mill -- I might just go with Grizzly. Not that it's a better mill for the price, but it's an established company with local US distributors and people who I can call when I'm stuck and need parts.

I broke (through my stupidity) a part on my IH and ended up getting a similar part off of a Grizzly mill and making it fit on mine. (Friends with spares, always the best friends.)

I would also try and look at a Tormach just to see if it was worth the risk.

Nothing on my IH is bad, broken, or not worth the price; my complaints were all about the delays in getting the right parts, documentation, etc.

[kregan]

Alternatively can anyone offer any recent customer comments on "Machine Tools
Warehouse"? I wasn't aware of them until encountering this thread and it appears
they offer a mill quite similar to IH's 12Z.
Any advice much appreciated.

I contacted both companies when I was deciding. The Machine Tool Warehouse owner contacted me quickly and we spoke on the phone the next day. His machines were in stock.

IH was a couple weeks delayed in contacting me. Machines not in stock.

Overall it was far less expensive to pay shipping and duty fee's for the MD001 mill then to purchase from IH.

Shipping from Canada to Maryland was cheaper then IH quoted me.

Not bashing, just facts.

[tkollen]

I was considering buying a milling machine from IH. After having phoned, left messages and e-mailed them for weeks I have yet to get a reply. Now their website has been down for almost a week. Imagine dealing with such a company for spare parts, after sales service etc.

Is this company still in business?

I am now buying my machine (MD001) from Machine Tools Warehouse in Canada instead. It also turns out their cost (incl. shipping) is less than IH.


Tom

[Dolphin USA]

I've tried contacting them via the website which is no longer working, and via phone which is disconnected.

[uhmgawa]

I've tried contacting them via the website which is no longer working, and via phone which is disconnected.

Yea I just notcied their website is defunct and returned here to share that
finding. But I see others have noticed this as well.

I suppose for now they are out of consideration. I like(ed) the accounts
heard from them as well as users, on the technical merits and manufacturing
philosophy of the machines. But the apparent instability of the business
along with horror stories of needing to resort to legal action to reconcile
purchases/warranty obligations seem rather alarming. Perhaps I should
have figured something was up when the only phone conversations I've ever
had with (Tommy I believe) occurred while he was in a moving vehicle.

In any event, thanks for the information.