Industrial Hobbies Forum

[MikeAber]

I requested this Forum as information about this machine was all over the place and it made sense to provide a place to keep it organized and easier to find.

I purchased an Industrial Hobbies Gearhead Mill in November of 2004, BIGGER IS BETTER!. The dovetail square column Z axis is a delight to use.

If you are looking around trying to decide what bench top machine to buy - make sure you purchase a square column mill - once you use one you won't even consider a round column mill!

I lapped the ways on this machine. Every time I crank the lead screws I'm impressed at how smooth moves are now and the power feed isn't growling anymore.

I won't do a CNC conversion on this machine, it's too valuable to me as a manual machine due to the inch leadscrews and long table.

I just completed my mini gantry mill and R8 mini mill spindle projects largely in part to my IH mill. It's now time to learn the programming end of things.

My next major CNC project is to learn how to use my new TORMACH PCNC1100 CNC machine.

I highly recommend this book:
A really good book for hobbyists like me. It includes a demo version of MASTERCAM:
Machining and CNC Technology by Michael Fitzpatrick
ISBN 0-07-829860-1

I hope Industrial Hobbies mill users and prospective owners find this Forum helpful.

Tell us about your machine and what your doing with it, your likes and dislikes, your modifications to improve the machine and make everyone's life a little easier for Industrial Hobbies "Big Mill" owners.

Mike

[MikeAber]

This is a touchy subject. As an amateur gunsmith I am used to lapping various components to obtain smoother operation. When I purchased my Harbor Freight gearhead mill I stoned the ways to improve the contact surfaces and was satisfied with the results, I still am 2 years later.

I like to run my gibbs on the tight side and my new Industrial Hobbies Big Mill (November 2004) was really tough going with many tight spots along the ways. The power feed would grunt and growl thru those spots and it became a distraction to the point of being unbearable. After reading and rereading the instructions on the Industrial Hobbies web site several times over 6 months I decided to lap the ways on my IH mill. It really runs smooth now under power feed with a lot less power needed. The difference is amazing. I am also impressed with how much better the gibbs lock. I recommend anyone lapping the ways to take your time and leave the dovetails alone except for maybe a little 600 or 800 grit. Locate and follow the directions EXACTLY for lapping the ways on the Industrial Hobbies website. If Aaron says 50 strokes, 60 strokes is not better!

I also made the Y axis mod to increase Y axis travel. I did the Y axis mod on my HF gearhead mill a couple of years ago and was suprised at how often I used the extra travel. If you own one of the gearhead mills this mod is worth the effort. You can see this mod in the pictures below.

Pictures:
BLUE - Industrial Hobbies gearhead mill with lapped Y axis ways
BURGUNDY - Harbor Freight gearhead mill with stoned Y axis ways (high spots removed with an india oil stone)

Next on the agenda for me is lapping the column ways and maybe the slide mod. I use my mill for manual operations, I don't know if the slide mod will offer me any improvement or not. Next time I talk to Aaron I'll ask.

Aaron really knows his machine! There is a wealth of information on his (Industrial Hobbies) website about modifications and conversions for the gearhead machines that is unequalled anywhere else. Really good articles on how to use offsets, fixtures, clamping methods, building a wet bench, using flood coolant, setting up tooling, what kind of oil to use in a gearhead mill and why. There are lots of pictures of the various mods and step by step instructions on how to do them.

I recommend Industrial Hobbies and appreciate the extra effort Aaron has taken to keep us informed. There are many companies out there selling CNC technology and IH is one of the better ones.

Mike

[rboeser]

That mill is begging for CNC... It looks like a nice piece!

[Nono]

Hello Mike I purchased mine in April of this year and just in the last month got it up and running and now working on converting it to CNC (almost done with the power supply). This will be my first conversion and after I am done with this one I plan on a large router table...... Glad to be a part of the community.

[MikeAber]

Hi Nono,


Are you using a kit for your conversion or doing it on your own? The power supply is about the easiest part for me.

I am waiting for the right set of ball screws (precision ground) to come along to start my HF conversion, I have the servos, Gecko's, controller and power supply already. I need to become more comfortable with CNC operations before running a bigger machine.

I went the other way around, I built the gantry machine first "Mike's Mini Gantry Mill".


Welcome to the land of the Blue Big Mill.

Mike

[Nono]

I plan on doing the conversion on my own. My power supply is 3 in one (6.5 amps per motor) and stuffed into a Drawer (really). I went to school for machining and used to run a CNC laser for Roadmaster Inc so most of this isn't that new to me. I just forgot most of what I learned. I am starting over with this smaller conversion and that should refresh my mind enough to take on a larger machine. BTW that is a cool mill. Do you get much deflection on the Z axis?

[MikeAber]

There are people on this website that have forgotten more than I will ever learn about Machine and CNC Technology, like yourself. I'm just a hobbyist machinist, I've taken a few college classes on Machine Technology and Gibbscam. I aspire to learn a little more and have learned a lot about what doesn't work.

The Z axis is a little bouncy, the 20 pound spindle helps some in that department. I measured the amount of deflection in all the axis's and was shocked at the results, I could move the machine +/- .010"+ in every direction by pushing and pulling on the gantry! The moving gantry is the bigest problem, the height of the gantry bridge amplifies the minimal play in the linear bearings (like a long lever). I thought the problem was the structural material wasn't rigid enough and went off in a tangent of extremes until I performed this simple test.

I took a spring scale and placed a 1/2" collet and a 1/2" piece of drill rod in the spindle, then I pulled on the piece of drill rod with 25 pounds of tension and measured the deflection of the spindle housing with a dial indicator. The results were as follows:

On my Industrial Hobbies mill .005" - .007" on the X, .005" - .004" on the Y and .002" (up) - .006" (down) on the Z
On my Harbor Freight gearhead mill --about the same-- the Z has a little more movement +/- .002"
On a Bridgeport mill at the college --nothing-- (that's why they weigh 3,000 pounds)
On my mini gantry mill .007" - .009" on the X, .005" - .005" on the Y, and .011" (down) - .018" (up) on the Z

This gave me clues to what was happening and where. After adding a crossbrace to the top of the gantry, tightening up some of the linear bearing pillow blocks in the X axis and adding the 20 pound spindle instead of the rotary tool all of the axis's pretty much are in the +/- .005-6" ball park with 25 pounds of force. The most important part is that they all return to "0" when the force is removed. The structural qualities of my mini gantry mill will never equal the brute strength of the other machines. Major deflections are possible with this design under extreme conditions. If I keep the cutting tool doing it's job and don't push the capabilities it works well.

Thanks for asking Nono, I've been dying to tell someone that story!

More pictures in my gallery.

Mike

An Update to this post.

I recently discovered a major design problem with my little machine's Z axis. Nono's observation was correct; the long unsupported linear rods allow major deflection (.070") if the Z carriage is in the middle of the travel range. I plan to replace the linear rod with some THK SHS15 linear rails and blocks soon. I never invisioned this little machine would have a 2.5 HP spindle on it. The power is awsome! It's wierd watching two 1/2" linear rods twist .070 " from the torque of a 1/4" 2 flute endmill grabbing a chunk of 6061.

Another bump in my road, still learning what doesn't work.

Mike

[Roy Norris]

Hi Mike,

I was surprised at the deflections you measured on the IH mill. Any thoughts on how to minimize them?

Best regards - Roy

[MikeAber]

That's why they don't weigh 3,000 pounds and cost $15,000.

Don't worry Roy, your machine will work great! Mine does.

Don't forget -- pictures!\

Mike

[MikeAber]

Caught in the middle.

I knew that my post on lapping the ways on my Industrial Hobbies Big Mill would bring out the naysayers on that subject, I expected it.

The pros are right of course; the training that a journeyman machinist goes thru is intensive and extensive, hard learned and can take 10 years or more (mostly more) to be at the “Master” level. I don’t take the advice of any master craftsman lightly, they have earned the respect they are due. Professionals must earn their salary and some more for the shop overhead to be successful and remain employed. Only the best machine tools, accessories, hand tools and instruments are prudent for the pros as time is money!

What’s a hobbyist to do?

As a hobbyist I’m forced to make choices that a pro wouldn’t even need to consider.
My hobby shop machine tool area is 10’ wide and 18’ long with 3 doors.
Bench top machines are all I have room and budget for.
My machine use time can be measured in hours per month.
Most of my work is non critical in the .005” tolerance range with an occasional .001” requirement.
My measuring tools will be used frequently, not continuously.
I can afford to learn the basics of CNC with a converted bench top mill drill.
I can’t even think about a Haas tool room CNC mill (I can dream).
My projects are a joke to a tradesman and a joy for me.

By necessity, most of my machine tool, accessory and measuring tool purchases are Chinese products due to cost. It isn’t that I prefer them to US, English, German or Japanese products it’s that I can afford them.

The manufacturing tolerances of these machine tools are dismal at best; Moglice coated, hard chromed, flame or induction hardened ways? You have got to be kidding! Aged, cast iron castings? Maybe 7 days! Deburred edges – no way! Angular contact spindle bearings, nope! Raw machined or ground surfaces with no cleaning off the swarf or casting sand before final assembly, DEFINITELY! Milling machine tables that are not flat - with .005” - .012” dips and twists, voids and t-slots that a t-nut or t-bolt wont pass thru – yes! This is the reality of the hobby machinist.
A master machinist tradesman would have departed the scene in horror long before getting this far.

Having said all of that, it is truly amazing what some hobbyists are doing with these machines. Some have actually become Industrial Hobbyists. --- Not me, I’m just a hobby machinist. ---

I hope you guys can take a little sarcasm.

Mike

[DieGuy]

The pros are right of course; the training that a journeyman machinist goes thru is intensive and extensive, hard learned and can take 10 years or more (mostly more) to be at the “Master” level. I don’t take the advice of any master craftsman lightly, they have earned the respect they are due. Professionals must earn their salary and some more for the shop overhead to be successful and remain employed. Only the best machine tools, accessories, hand tools and instruments are prudent for the pros as time is money!

I am a journeyman tool maker from the late 70's I serverd my apprenticeship in a tool and die shop in Michigan that was basicly a Bridgeport/surface grinder stamping die operation. An old toolmaker told me if I could do good work on the old and then wornout stuff in there I could do it anywhere. I then moved up to a government operation that had everything you could want, from large heavy mills and big lathes to B&S ID/OD grinders and Moore jig borers and grinders. He was right, if you learn to do it right the equipment just makes it easier!

I now am just getting back into the machining as a hobby, I have to say the people around here have the right attitude of determination to do it right and accomplish with what they have. Mike you have the right attitude.

to all the great hobby machinists and professionals that grace this place.

[MikeAber]

DieGuy,

Thanks for the kind words. I must say you also have the right attitude.

For all of us hobbyists (Hobby Machinists) it's all about having fun, right!