Collaborative Design Effort?

[imhuge999]

The "New Radial Engine Project Concept" thread has been revived recently and I couldn't help but think "Wow...I remember that thread from way back when".

That thread inspired me to try taking a Saito 4-stroke glow engine and model it in Solidworks (I had a non-running V-twin Saito at the time). Then I could use that to design a replica of a Lamborghini V12 trying to use common parts like pistons, rings, valves, connecting rods, etc... I worked on it for a few weeks in my spare time until I had the revelation one day that this thing would not be a small hobby engine. Instead, this thing had become a very complex race-inspired engine. The cost was high (admittedly it could have been cheaper if perhaps I could settle for an 8-cylinder), I no longer had the spare time, and the complication of getting it to run well was going to be more involved than I was willing to commit to.

But now I find myself contemplating it again when I saw this thread. My past efforts are long gone but I am getting the bug to do something. Perhaps we need to get a collaborative design effort and publish some plans for an engine based on a particular Saito (or O.S.) engine. There are plenty of free CNC plans on this board...maybe it is time for the I.C. guys to step-up?
Is anyone interested? I cannot say I have any plan but there are plenty of knowledgeable and capable people here...certainly we could get something going.

[stevehuckss396]

I could help out. The drawing format would be a problem. I draw in Alibre and thats about it. If Alibre is going to be the format then I could draw a few parts .

What do you have in mind?

[imhuge999]

I always seem to veer towards the fancy racing engines. If I can get someone interested in trying to reproduce Audi's R10 that would be stellar but well over my head and time constraints. Perhaps the more realistic approach is to reproduce something that is very common (and thus more straight forward). The simplest would probably be replicating a Jeep I6 but to add some cool factor a V8 would be interesting. V8's seem to spur a lot of interest here so I think it is a likely candidate. Manufacturing needs to be considered too.

We have to decide on which engine we should use for parts. This probably entails seeing which parts are more cost effective and maybe calling the manufacturer to confirm they do not plan on eliminating that particular engine any time soon. At the same time we would also have to choose the right donor parts for our particular engine interests.

The CAD platform may be tricky but as long as we can exchange STEP files we can stay onboard with everyone's progress. When we get to the final bits I would like to see someone from each CAD platform model/detail everything in their native CAD format. Then the package would be available in several versions but I am getting way ahead of myself.

[NatFJ55]

This sounds very cool. I love small engines and have been toying with different ideas.

I have:
Solidworks 2007
Solidedge V20
AutoCAD 2005

A V12 would be sweet.

Another option is a very simple single cyclinder design. I have a big brass gate valve that I thought would make a great crankcase. Add external valves and pushrods, and you would have soemthing pretty interesting.

[imhuge999]

Originally Posted by NatFJ55 Another option is a very simple single cyclinder design. I have a big brass gate valve that I thought would make a great crankcase. Add external valves and pushrods, and you would have soemthing pretty interesting.

That would be interesting but I am looking for a little more than converting a single-cylinder into another single-cylinder.

I am on board with a V12. We just have to get moving.

[NatFJ55]

I am definitely up for a V12.

[stevehuckss396]

Originally Posted by imhuge999 I am on board with a V12. We just have to get moving.

Pitter Patter, Lets get at'er



Are you sure about the V12? Parts cost might exceed $100 per cylinder. How about an opposed 6 or 8. Huge cost savings and balance issues are greatly reduced.

[dynosor]

Originally Posted by stevehuckss396 Are you sure about the V12? Parts cost might exceed $100 per cylinder. How about an opposed 6 or 8. Huge cost savings and balance issues are greatly reduced.

You mean something like this?

After contemplating a V12, I too have had ideas along the lines of starting with something simpler. Something that might actually get built.

I wanted to stay out of this thread, but I just couldn't help myself...

[LongRat]

Like the flat 6 idea a lot. This appeals to me more than a V12, although my opinion counts for little as I could not contribute much to designing such an engine. Also appealing would be if the engine was designed for the production of real power, rather than a bench runner.

[RICHARD ZASTROW]

FYI A built-up engine that looks very much like dynosor's #8 flat 6. This was/is a (I believe) machined billet crancase with (6) Kohler 220cc cylinders from Mercury SnowTwister snowmobile engines. These are liquid cooled high-performance engines with about 100 hp per pair of cylinders.

Jeff Miller, the builder, held the SCCA C-Sport racing championship for years with this setup.

Dick Z

[imhuge999]

Wow, I need to check this board more often.

I hear you when you say that this will be complicated. My first engine was a single. Then I built a radial. Then an inline 4. Later I used some of the I4 parts to make the Mastiff flat-4 that I tried to retrofit into an MCD Rally but the engine did not make enough power and was too heavy. Then I ventured into live steam and made a Penny A3 Switcher (one of Kozo's engines) and I started the Shay but just lost interest in live steam locomotives - they take way too long.

I have not made a 'V ' nor have I made a 12 cylinder so it is a good fit for me - as long as I am not on my own I will give it a shot. If there is more support for a flat 6 (thinking Porsche?) then I am find with that.

I do keep coming around to a plan I had some time ago about modeling a semi-tractor and powering it with a small replica-like glow OHC Cat I6 (something like the C15). I started and work got really busy so I set it aside. I also figured that with a little forethought the I6 parts could be shared in a V12 design that I would use in a Live Diesel locomotive.

What I can say about my learning's in regards to the I6 - it is way cheaper to use factory motorcycle or outboard engine parts than it is to use Saito or O.S. parts. The downside is the engine becomes a little larger. I think I was basing everything off a 2hp Mercury that had a 2"-ish bore but this was perfect for the semi tractor.

[imhuge999]

I think to get started we first have to find a donor. Is there a chance anyone has a Saito/O.S. 4-stroke laying around?