Alu Engine to run on water (Hydrogen + Oxygen)

[ADucci]

Hey... Has anyone attempted to run a small engine using water... i have read a few sites that claim that they can create a device that breaks down water into hydrogen and oxygen.. (in extremely small yields)... then they simply combust the two using a slightly modified carb. and bingo.. your engine runs on water.. the only problem is that the combustion of H2 + 0 creates water as a by-product... this rusts everything in its path... so therefore you will need to coat with ceramic or build the block out or alu or stainless...

i dont know much about it.. just wondering.. i have started the project in my garage. built the stainless steel plates that will be used as the reactor cells..

[greybeard]

Hi ADucci.
I know very little about ic engines except my own car, but surely water is a by product in all 'normal' engines, so I'd think you have no extra problems from that score.

John

[Geof]

Yes an internal combustion engine will run on Hydrogen and Oxygen. Yes it will produce water. All internal combustion engines running on hydrocarbon fuels; gasoline (petrol), diesel, fuel oil, JP4, propane, natural gas (methane) whatever, produce water and carbon dioxide because all hydrocarbon fuels contain hydrogen and carbon. So water as a combustion product is no problem. Having a reactor to make your own hydrogen and oxygen from water makes no sense whatsoever; you will use more energy making it than you will get back from burning it in the engine.

[NC Cams]

Here's how to run an engine on water:

First you get it to run with hydrocarbon fuel.

Then you injest water via the inlet port while also carefully injesting enough fuel to INCREASE the adiabatic flame temp.

Why?

You need enough COMBUSTIBLE fuel to create enough heat to turn the water into steam thus creating an internally fired combination IC/steam engine.

You can then atttempt to recover the engergy from the combusting fuel and expanding steam - IF and ONLY IF you can keep the fire lit and not drown the engine until/unless you maintain the fine line of combustion and steam generation/expansion.

A former colleague did it as his master's thesis project and he did get it to work. It is not easily done nor is it readily maintainable in the ever changing operating environment of an auto engine.

In some respects, the water/alcohol turbo compound reciprocating engine aircraft engines that evolved near the end of WW-II did this sort of thin thing, sort of.

The combustion of the hydrocarbon fuel provided the heat that turned the water into steam that expanded thru the turbocharger. This both boosted the engine and also enabled power to be recovered from the "turbine" that was in the exhaust that also provided supplemental power to the crankshaft. Moreover, the water/alcohol blend served as a knock suppressant which helped them run higher C/R for even more power and efficiency.

The unspecifed trick was that you eventually had to run the engine on pure hydrocarbon fuel to "dry it out". Super heated steam also is notoriously BAD for removing the microscopic lube that MUST exist between the moving parts in the combustion chamber to prevent scuff/score/siezure.

Geof's comments in post #3 explain why pure water as a fuel is totally impractical. Although Hydrogen and Oxygen do wonderous things on their own for combustion, the molecular bond that exists when they are joined as a water molecule make them horendously inert as a fuel capable of combustion, no matter what you do to try to change that situation.

[diarmaid]

The valves, and exhaust system is usually changed to stainless steel. Much more H2O is a byproduct of a hydrogen engine than a byproduct of a regular engine, obviously, so leaving unchanged will corrode rapidly. Ceramic is not really a viable option in most cases. Aluminium is also not preferred AFIK.

[NC Cams]

Note: MOST exhaust valves are already stainless - this is the only type of steel that will live at exhaust gas temps (1200-1700 deg F).

Intakes are high alloy steel and occastionally stainless. You don't need stainless due to the load/temp environment of an intake. Frankly, a "stainless" intake may not be as robust as a properly chosen non-stainless valve alloy.

Most OEM exhausts back to the catalytic converter anymore are already matensitic stainless (thus they rust and are magnetic - austenitic stainess doesn't rust and is not magnetic. Reason: heat generated of the exhaust gas is needed to light up and keep the converter lit.

The "water byproduct" in the exhaust is NOT a problem if you get/keep the exhaust system hot enough to burn the condensate off.

Cool exhaust that can condense stuff in it will rot out - hot exhausts (ala taxi cabs or police cruisers that run all the time) can use the stock exhaust sytem for the life of the vehicle.

The little old lady who drives 2 miles once every other day to and from church or the store, will eat up an exhaust system faster than ANYBODY.

It ain't just the fuel guys - it is the ENTIRE OPERATING ENVIRONMENT that has to be considered.....

[Geof]

If you really want to be separated from your money by smart movers here you are: http://www.savefuel.ca/oxy-hydrogen/...FRUFYgod6lkaKg

[paulC]

Originally Posted by Geof If you really want to be separated from your money by smart movers here you are: http://www.savefuel.ca/oxy-hydrogen/...FRUFYgod6lkaKg

They never tire of trying to sell perpetual motion ideas do they.

[Geof]

Originally Posted by paulC They never tire of trying to sell perpetual motion ideas do they.

The sad thing is that Yoda's comment is applicable; there is no try, they do sell them.

I do not know if the attribution is correct but the sentiment is: "There's a sucker born every minute...and two to take 'em." The source of the quote is most likely famous con-man Joseph ("Paper Collar" Joe) Bessimer.

[Mariss Freimanis]

I have a better idea. Use the exhaust (water) and thru a pipe, feed it right back into the carburator. Re-use it again and again forever. The engine delivers power forever and ever with no additional fuel. I cannot find a flaw in this idea anywhere!:-)

Mariss

[RICHARD ZASTROW]

If you want some expert insight into water/alcohol injection combined with high pressure turbocharging, look up one of those top level tractor pullers.
My neighbor does this for giggles. My gawd what a cloud in the air!!!
And screaming multi-turbo noises!!!! Sounds like sirens.

[diarmaid]

Originally Posted by RICHARD ZASTROW If you want some expert insight into water/alcohol injection combined with high pressure turbocharging, look up one of those top level tractor pullers. My neighbor does this for giggles. My gawd what a cloud in the air!!! And screaming multi-turbo noises!!!! Sounds like sirens.

I dont know if this is what you mean. But there's a hell of a noise, lots of crap coming out the exhaust, and its called Tractor Pulling!!

http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?vi...6cbf8d9.806402