CNCzone.com-The Largest Machinist Community on the net!



Home Page Mark Forums Read Today's Posts My Replies Classifieds Reviews Photo Gallery Web Links Share Files Advertise With Us Ad List
Go Back   CNCzone.com-The Largest Machinist Community on the net! > Hobby Projects > I.C. Engines


I.C. Engines Discuss home made Internal Combustion engines here!


This forum is sponsored by:

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1   Ban this user!
Old 06-13-2006, 01:01 AM
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Canada
Age: 69
Posts: 96
Ken McKenzie is on a distinguished road
Instruction for making a Wankel engine

To design the housing for the Wankel housing you first have to establish the eccentricity.

In this plan we will make the eccentricity one half inch, and the rotor a six inch triangle. Visualize a one inch diameter watch face with 45 successive minute marks starting at the 9 o’clock position and finishing at the six o’clock position.

Each clock minute is exactly six degrees of a 360 degree circle. 9 o’clock is at the 45 minute position. Count from this backwards in a clockwise direction until you have numbered all the minute marks ending with 0 at the six o’clock position.

Draw a horizontal line with a space and a point ending exactly at three inches starting at the 9 o’clock position. The point at the end of the line will be exactly at the minor axis of the housing.

Draw a horizontal line with a space and a point ending exactly at three inches starting at the 44 minute position, then rotate this line two degrees clockwise. Two degrees is one third of the starting point rotation..

Draw a horizontal line with a space and a point ending exactly at three inches starting at the 43 minute position, then rotate this line four degrees clockwise.

Draw a horizontal line with a space and a point ending exactly at three inches starting at the 42 minute position, then rotate this line six degrees clockwise.

Continue this exercise until you have used all the designated minute marks and have a horizontal line with a space and a point ending exactly at three inches starting at the 0 minute position then rotate this line ninety degrees clockwise.

What you will find is a line of dots that make one quarter of a precision Wankel type engine housing.

My experience shows me that Mazda is not aware of this type of precision.

Hope this is of interest.

Ken McKenzie
Tweet this Post!Share on Facebook

  #2   Ban this user!
Old 06-13-2006, 05:37 AM
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 992
Kiwi is on a distinguished road

How far apart are the dots and if you draw a line between the dots, does this not leave flats?
This can be done with a mathmatical formula in very very small increments.
Tweet this Post!Share on Facebook

  #3   Ban this user!
Old 06-13-2006, 09:10 PM
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Canada
Age: 69
Posts: 96
Ken McKenzie is on a distinguished road

In the example I used each minute is 6 degrees of a 360 degree circle and each sucessive angle is one third or two degrees.

If you choose to use one degree to progress around the 3/4 circle you would have each progression be a third of a degree.

In the formula when you get to "0" you then continue another 3/4 circle numbering from 1 to 45 this will complete half of the housing and you will show a rotation of one and a half.

do the process again to complete the housing your shown journey will be three revolutions.

Thanks for your interest.

Cheers

Ken

Last edited by Ken McKenzie; 06-13-2006 at 09:32 PM.
Tweet this Post!Share on Facebook

  #4  
Old 06-13-2006, 09:23 PM
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 1,734
Ken_Shea is on a distinguished road

Ken,
I can assure you that the response is not indicative of the interest, keep the sharing of your experience going.

I have always found the Wankel engine fascinating and because they were never understood by me , also seemed almost mystical.

Ken
Tweet this Post!Share on Facebook

  #5   Ban this user!
Old 06-13-2006, 09:40 PM
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Canada
Age: 69
Posts: 96
Ken McKenzie is on a distinguished road

Thanks Ken

I have found that the Wankel engine is not understood at all.

Its potential far exceeds our comprehention.

Ken Mckenzie
Tweet this Post!Share on Facebook

Sponsored Links
  #6   Ban this user!
Old 06-14-2006, 01:11 AM
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Canada
Age: 69
Posts: 96
Ken McKenzie is on a distinguished road

A top priority for maximizing the potential of the Wankel engine requires the utilization of the complete power stroke. The power stroke in a four cycle internal combustion engine consists of the utilization of the combustion pressures that push the piston or rotor from minimum displacement to the maximum displacement.

In the reciprocating piston engine poor energy is created in the 12 o'clock to 1 o'clock and the 5 o'clock to 6 o'clock crankshaft position.

In the Wankel engine poor energy is created at the 12 o'clock to 2 o'clock e-shaft position and maximum energy is produced at the 6 o'clock e-shaft position when the largest third of displacement is about to take place. But unfortunately the exhaust port is opened at this time causing the pressure to go out the exhaust and around the apex seal and into the intake portion of the engine.

This creates serious problems when there are periphery intake ports.

Side ports cause superior separation as the ports are not open until after the exhaust stroke is complete.

Mazda in its new Renesis engine with side intake and side exhaust ports does use a greater portion of the power stroke after the 6 o'clock e-shaft position.

To get maximum torque from a Wankel engine we need periphery intake and exhaust ports as close as possible to the minor axis of the housing and a system that creates perfect separation between the exhaust and intake.

There is a solution, any thoughts?

Ken
Tweet this Post!Share on Facebook

  #7   Ban this user!
Old 06-15-2006, 12:39 AM
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Canada
Age: 69
Posts: 96
Ken McKenzie is on a distinguished road

The previous post regarding instructions for making the Wankel housing, when used will show a line at each minor axis. The design also minimizes apex seal seat wear as there is very small if any in and out movement of the apex seal.

Most think that the e-shaft turns three times for every rotor revolution.

The rotor is compelled to equal rotations with the lobe of the e-shaft.

The Mazda rotor has 51 internal gear teeth of which 34 of them make contact with the stationary gear every e-shaft revolution. Therefore the rotor also makes two thirds of a revolution for each e-shaft revolution.

The two thirds of a revolution cause the rotor to be one surface out of phase every e-shaft revolution.

We watch what appears to be obvious when we claim the rotor turns once for every e-shaft revolution and we are wrong.

If we cut the e-shaft immediately after the lobe (So the rotor would be held in place the same as a rotating foot pad of a bicycle pedal.) and then made a direct drive from the rotor to the drive shaft with a universal joint, or whatever, we would find that the rotor rotates two times for every three e-shaft revolutions.

Gears do the exact same thing every time I am just informing what the gears force the rotor to do.

If you wanted to make a direct gear link from the rotor to the e-shaft lobe the gear ratio would be three to one. But in this instant we are only using the rotating lobe connected by gears to the rotating rotor.

Hope this is of interest

Cheers

Ken McKenzie www.starapex.com
Tweet this Post!Share on Facebook

  #8   Ban this user!
Old 06-15-2006, 03:46 PM
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 1,622
One of Many is on a distinguished road

Ken,

I am certain there is interest out there, but to help pull others into the discussion it would help if you included geometry figures to follow along with your verbal description.

When I tried to follow the steps to CAD the geometry, I lost track of the terminology used in:

"Draw a horizontal line with a space and a point ending exactly at three inches starting at the 9 o’clock position"

A "from point" is unclear starting at 9 o'clock, as a 3" horizontal line with a space does not tell me where to start or what/where the space should be in that line. Should "space" actually be read as length?

It's mak'n my synapses tired trying to get that much blood in or out of my head to comprehend where it all fits together. On the verge of slpod'n or implod'n, but not quite sure!

DC
__________________
Learn cause and effect through experience. Mastering those relationships is the "Common Sense" ability within the art of any trade.
Tweet this Post!Share on Facebook

  #9   Ban this user!
Old 06-15-2006, 09:33 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 992
Kiwi is on a distinguished road

This program draws the profile. I wrote it for a CAD program but I have put it into Visual Basic to demonstate using a computer to generate the profile.
This drawing has 3600 points.
Attached Files
File Type: zip WankleProfile.zip‎ (3.6 KB, 494 views)
Tweet this Post!Share on Facebook

  #10   Ban this user!
Old 06-15-2006, 10:43 PM
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Canada
Age: 69
Posts: 96
Ken McKenzie is on a distinguished road

Kiwi

The 3600 points you show results from a generating circle with half the radius of of a base circle rolling around the base circle. A point is positioned at the desired eccentricy and this creates a housing superior to what you depict.

All three points of a triangle will not keep constant contact with it when following it's eccentric path.

The description I provided is for making a precision housing.

Ken McKenzie
Tweet this Post!Share on Facebook

Sponsored Links
  #11   Ban this user!
Old 06-15-2006, 10:50 PM
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Canada
Age: 69
Posts: 96
Ken McKenzie is on a distinguished road

DC

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Draw a line starting at the 9 o'clock position from left to right with a space and a dot at the end. The total length including the dot and space is three inches.

Take care
Ken McKenzie
Tweet this Post!Share on Facebook

  #12   Ban this user!
Old 06-15-2006, 11:07 PM
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Canada
Age: 69
Posts: 96
Ken McKenzie is on a distinguished road

Instructions for making a Wankel engine.

If you want an air head understanding of the principles of a Wankel engine look at the many four part drawings that show the intake compression combustion and exhaust strokes.

If you want a true understanding note that for every quarter turn of the e-shaft one third of a stroke takes place on the three surfaces of the rotor.

The beginning of the combustion stroke is the beginning of the second third of the exhaust stroke and also the beginning of the last third of the intake stroke.

Cheers

Ken
Tweet this Post!Share on Facebook

Closed Thread




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:56 AM.





Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2012, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO
Template-Modifications by TMS

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353