Jim Colt, Powermax 65 / 85 questions

[magma-joe]

Hi Jim,

I have a 1250 series machine on my Dynatorch machine that I would like to update to the Powermax 85. The 85 is so new it seems my LWS is confused as I am about part #s and options.

The part # 087115 with the CPC port and a 25' (long barrel) machine torch is what I am looking at. My questions are;

1. Just what is the CPC port?

2. I see there is more than one CNC interface cable listed on the Hypertherm site. Is the CNC interface cable included with the mechanized PM 65 / 85 kits or is it an add on?

3. Can I reuse the CNC interface cable from my 1250? Being able to reuse the 1250's existing cable would sure eliminate alot of wire harness work.

Thanks,

magma-joe

[quisman]

Hi there,

First of all I would recommend checking the link below.
https://www.hypertherm.com/library/f...OM)/806650.pdf

It's the operator manual for the Powermax 65/85. In there on page 3-21 you'll find the cpc pinouts which matches the 1000/1250/1650 for start and transfer. The built in voltage division will be on pins 5 and 6 now.
You should be fine for re-using the cable you already have if the pinout matches the manual(if you didn't modify it).

The CPC port is known as a "Circular Plastic Connector". It is a standard 14 pin amp. plug(female). This is the same plug on the G3 series.

The other cables listed for the 65/85 are for other types of connectivity. We have a cable that will allow a direct interface to the EdgeTi cnc and a few other options on page 3-19

I hope this helps. Have fun with the new machine !
I want one !!

EDIT: if you check out the document library it has a great breakdown of the 65 and 85 for ordering.
just type in 65 or 85 in the document title, then click submit and roam free.

https://www.hypertherm.com/Xnet/libr...ntLibrary3.jsp

[jimcolt]

Joe,

Did Quisman answer your questions?

Yes you can use your cable.

Jim

[asuratman]

Hi Jim,
On the specs with mechanized, pierce cap is 5/8". But with handheld, recommended cut cap 1-1/4". Can we cut 1-1/4" thick plate with cnc using handtorch? or What max thickness plate with cnc table?

[jimcolt]

Both torches have exactly the same capacity. The spec for the mechanized torch is for piercing, as with the majority of mechanized cnc applications the torch is held perpendicular to the plate, and piercing is straight in. Piercing thicker than 5/8" with this system on a machine, will cause extremely short nozzle life. With a hand torch you can tip the torch so the molten metal will not damage the nozzle. If you can set up your machine to edge start, then you can cut as thick as the torch will cut. If I had to pierce 1-1/4" on a production basis, I would recommend at least a 200 Amp plasma system. Hypertherm has system that go to 800 amps, and can pierc 4-1/4"!

Another consideration with any mechanized plasma application is duty cycle. When you are cutting maximum thickness the cut speeds are slow, and the output power is at maximum, meaning it is possible to exceed the duty cycle rating. Typically when mechanized cutting, the torch is used much more than for hand cutting. So, when sizing a plasma system, make sure that the majority of the thickness you need to cut are somewhere in the middle of the plasma systems capacity. You will be much happier!

Every Hypertherm system will do what its specs say it can do. In fact, the specs are a bit conservative, as I cut 1/2" and 5/8" (with a pierce) wih my Powermax45, which is mechanized rated for 3/8". If I had to do a lot of this thick material, especially on a hot day, I would expect to exceed the duty cycle on the plasma. It will stop cutting, the temperature light will illuminate, the fan will stay on, and when it cools down, it is ready to cut again.

[magma-joe]

Originally Posted by jimcolt Joe, Did Quisman answer your questions? Yes you can use your cable. Jim

Yes Jim, that answered my question. My LWS called hypertherm for availability and was told it would be 2 to 3 weeks before an order for the new Powermax 65 or 85 could be filled. I am still waiting for someone on the internet to give a review and post some pics of the cut quality.

I am most interested in the new conical torch design and the real difference in cut quality between the 1000/1250 series and the new 65/85 machines. If they have cut quality like the Powermax 45 I will place my order. I hope to see some reviews on the internet soon. Thanks,

Magma-joe

[jimcolt]

Joe,

I will have one on my cnc in the next few weeks. The new 65 and 85 are a bit hard to get right now....the orders have exceeded our forecast by over 2x. On top of that, when we realease new products like this all of the LWD stores order them....and ship orders in the order that we recieve them.....so it takes a while to "fill the pipeline". Sorry for the delays.....eventually we will get to the point where the units can ship same day, that is always our goal!

As soon as I get my Powermax85 I will post cut sample results and pictures. I do know that it cuts identically to the 45 when you have the 45 amp consumable installed, the design was simply mapped over to the new torch. Parts are not interchangeable, but perform identically. The new units also have FineCut consumables for narrower kerf on materials under 1/8".....the only questions I have are regarding the performance at 65 and 85 amps.

I have cut with a hand torch at 85 amps.....it is a beast. For my first cut I stacked two pieces of 3/4", and it dropped them like a bad habit!

Best regards, Jim

[magma-joe]

Hi Jim,

In many of your previous posts you have spoke of cutting 1/2" and even 5/8" steel with your Powermax 45 and getting good results. I saw a picture (2nd picture, post #19) of some 3/8" steel you cut with the 45. The cut face looks very smooth with minimal bevel.
Weld Talk Message Board and Online Forum - Hobart Welders

Based on my experience with a Powermax 1250 series, cutting 1/2" or 5/8" steel seems incredible for a 45 amp nozzle. The 1000 and 1250 manuals recommend switching to 60 amp nozzles for anything over 1/4".

I have not tried the following test but intend to soon.

What could I expect from a 1000 or 1250 loaded with a 40amp nozzle running at 45amps on 1/2" or 5/8" ? Is it possible and if not what exactly makes the Powermax 45 so much more capable?

As I was reading the specs on the new Powermax 65 I noticed it was rated at 100% duty cycle @ 46 amps. If it cuts as well as the 45 it sounds as if you could cut 3/8 and 1/2" steel all day long with out exceding the duty cycle?

Magma-joe

[jimcolt]

While I would not recommend the Powermax45 for any big production jobs on 1/2" and even 5/8", it does do a very nice job in regards to edge squareness and smoothness. The 1/2" will have some light to medium dross, but it almost falls off by itself with handling, the 5/8" will have heavier dross, but it also knocks off easily.

The 40 Amp shielded consumables as used on the Powermax1000, 1250 and 1650 are of a different design, prior to the conical flow technology as used in the 45 and now used in the new Powermax65 and 85. I would not expect them to pierce through 1/2" without damage to the nozzle, and I also would not expect the same cut quality in terms of squareness. With these systems the best cut quality would be with the 60 Amp process on these thicknesses.

The conical flow technology uses the internal shape of the nozzle and shield to direct the shield gas (air) flow so that it increases the enrgy density of the arc, which is the reason for the improved cut quality. Hypertherm has a very strong engineering group with over 85 engineers, more that 15 with pHd's, that continue to push the limits of the technology in terms of consumable life, cut quality, etc. We of course protect our technology with patents...as it is costly to develop.....so you will see this type of cut quality on other machines after the patents expire!

You are right on the 65 being able to cut at 45 Amps at 100% duty cycle.

Jim

Originally Posted by magma-joe Hi Jim, In many of your previous posts you have spoke of cutting 1/2" and even 5/8" steel with your Powermax 45 and getting good results. I saw a picture (2nd picture, post #19) of some 3/8" steel you cut with the 45. The cut face looks very smooth with minimal bevel. Weld Talk Message Board and Online Forum - Hobart Welders Based on my experience with a Powermax 1250 series, cutting 1/2" or 5/8" steel seems incredible for a 45 amp nozzle. The 1000 and 1250 manuals recommend switching to 60 amp nozzles for anything over 1/4". I have not tried the following test but intend to soon. What could I expect from a 1000 or 1250 loaded with a 40amp nozzle running at 45amps on 1/2" or 5/8" ? Is it possible and if not what exactly makes the Powermax 45 so much more capable? As I was reading the specs on the new Powermax 65 I noticed it was rated at 100% duty cycle @ 46 amps. If it cuts as well as the 45 it sounds as if you could cut 3/8 and 1/2" steel all day long with out exceding the duty cycle? Magma-joe

[Torchhead]

Jim: I am getting calls from my customers about the 65 and 85 units. Today, a long time customer called and asked me "which interface to order" with his 85. He was told by a Hypertherm rep that there are two different automation interfaces (the Circular Plastic Plug was one). I mentioned the rumored Serial interface and he seemed to think that was one choice. I can't find any technical specs (or any mention) of the serial interface.

So. Are there two choices of interfaces/plugs or is the serial an add-on option that is in addition to the CPC? Can you even get a 65 or 85 without the CPC?

Are the specs for the Serial going to be made open or does Hypertherm plan on keeping it proprietary to use only with their automated cutting systems?

Does the customer need to order anything special for the Serial interface?

There is an unidentified plug on the back but no mention in the current user manual as to what it is. There does not appear (that I have been able to find) a Tech manual on the new series with block schematics. I have found the manual to find and get the Raw Arc Voltage (like the 45 document) and next release of our DTHC users manual will have that added.

I know how it is introducing a new product and having sales exceed production. I also understand the sales dept wanting to get a product out of engineering and into production so sometimes documentation lags.

If you can get me some answers so I can better advise your potential customers as to what to buy then it will help us both.

We are still committed to supporting the 65 and 85 serial interface. We just started shipping our Digital Current Probe that gives us a precision readout and use of the DC cut current by slipping over the Workclamp lead. We also released a free software upgrade for our "Smart-Kut" (auto learn) feature.

TOM caudle
www.CandCNC.com

[jimcolt]

You can order the Powermax65/85 systems with no CPC interface (due to customers that did not want to pay for the interface),


Or with the CPC interface, or with the CPC interface and the Serial Interface.

There is no technical specification as of yet on the Serial interface. Our engineering group are writing a white paper that describes the interface protocol, and as soon as that is complete I will make everyone aware of the capability of this interface. As I understand it, you will be able to program current, air pressure and will be able to read all diagnostic code though this serial interface. The serial interface will be open for anyone to use.

Tom, I have passed your message on to the Powermax systems engineering group, and I will get back to you as soon as I have more detail.

Best regards, Jim

Originally Posted by Torchhead Jim: I am getting calls from my customers about the 65 and 85 units. Today, a long time customer called and asked me "which interface to order" with his 85. He was told by a Hypertherm rep that there are two different automation interfaces (the Circular Plastic Plug was one). I mentioned the rumored Serial interface and he seemed to think that was one choice. I can't find any technical specs (or any mention) of the serial interface. So. Are there two choices of interfaces/plugs or is the serial an add-on option that is in addition to the CPC? Can you even get a 65 or 85 without the CPC? Are the specs for the Serial going to be made open or does Hypertherm plan on keeping it proprietary to use only with their automated cutting systems? Does the customer need to order anything special for the Serial interface? There is an unidentified plug on the back but no mention in the current user manual as to what it is. There does not appear (that I have been able to find) a Tech manual on the new series with block schematics. I have found the manual to find and get the Raw Arc Voltage (like the 45 document) and next release of our DTHC users manual will have that added. I know how it is introducing a new product and having sales exceed production. I also understand the sales dept wanting to get a product out of engineering and into production so sometimes documentation lags. If you can get me some answers so I can better advise your potential customers as to what to buy then it will help us both. We are still committed to supporting the 65 and 85 serial interface. We just started shipping our Digital Current Probe that gives us a precision readout and use of the DC cut current by slipping over the Workclamp lead. We also released a free software upgrade for our "Smart-Kut" (auto learn) feature. TOM caudle www.CandCNC.com

[Torchhead]

Thanks for the feedback. As always you are a fountain of useful information!. I will advise my customers that ask, to order both the circular connector and the serial connector options.

Tell your Engineers that if they add one more divider level to the automation interface (divided by 10) that we can make it so our THC Sensor card just plugs into the circular connector for all the signals normal signals. We use a lower ratio (more volts) to keep the signal to noise ratio higher in a noisy environment. Final division is done at the far end (the DTHC module).

Even if we had some preliminary specs on the serial interface would help. The first thing will be the type serial (physical layer). RS232, RS422, RS485. Given that, we can start work on the hardware and basic communication level. Then when the actual protocols are available we can be ready to write the interface program. Being able to set parameters remotely will be a huge feature for automation. Being able to read and display error codes from the plasma adds even more versatility. We already do that with error codes from MACH, fault codes from our motor power (motion) section and with the DCP, and out-of-spec plasma current.

Have a safe trip.

TOM caudle
www.CandCNC.com