Need a bigger hypertherm

[energyforce]

All

I have come to a jam where i need to make a decision on how to move forward.

My hypertherm 45 is just not cutting it (no pun intended) for me. I am loyal as heck to Hypertherm and it is the way to go, but I need a larger plasma cutter.

Right now I feel I want to target the structural steel market which in most cases would need services cutting 1/4" thick to 1" thick steel. Maybe in few cases 1.5" thick steel. For this market the accuracy does not need to meet that of iso 9013 or 0.001" accuracy.

Would a very well-built but hobby CNC machine (im speaking geckos, candcnc, cnc4pc, or anything of that calibre) of a large size (i.e. 8ftx20ft) with a bigger badder hypertherm satisfy me? This way I can happily cut thicker steel, not caring that im not achieving 0.001 accuracies.

Im struggling trying to narrow down which hypertherm I want. Also which hypertherm? I know I dont need hi-def for this market, but I want something real heavy duty and good for a hobby-type cnc machine accuracy. (i.e. i dont care if my 1/2" holes have divots).

I dont want my consumables to die on me so quickly, or the duty cycle to max out on me (hence wanting heavy duty). I want to for instance be able to cut 100 holes in 1" thick steel with no problems.

I do not think I want to go the oxy-acetylene torch route.

We are looking to spend $15,000 to $20,000 on a Hypertherm. Is the max200 a good candidate for this market?


Also my business partner and I plan to hit up the Fab Tech Expo in Atlanta to do some business research http://www.fabtechexpo.com/ regarding this issue and the products out there. Would this be a good move?

[DanOSB]

what is minimum requirement for following below?

Speed
backlash
acceleration/deceleration

any other parameters that we are required to run those bigger plasma cutter?


also what is difference between max200 and hsd 130 (they are about same price range?)

Cheers
Dan

[scrambled]

Energyforce-

Have you thought about a oxy-fuel torch? I am cutting up to 2 inch plate, and the cut quality is great.

I am needing to add a Hypertherm so that I can cut smaller stuff and stainless.

I have read several posts that talk about cut speed on larger material, and unless you want to make the jump to high def, the speed are close to the same


Just a thought.


Steve

[jimcolt]

If you need to pierce 1" on a production basis, as an example cutting 100 holes in 1" plate, you need at least 200 Amps of plasma cutting power. You will hear from many that they may be piercing 1" with an 80 or 100 Amp air plasma....and of course thay can get through 1" steel with these units, but they may get 20 or so starts before the shield and nozzle are damaged to the point that cut quality is terrible.

Yes, the Max200 would do a good job, however the HT2000 is far better suited for mechanized production cutting in your material thickness range...and is a widely accepted plasma system in the structural plate market.

Both the Max200 and the HT2000 have 200 Amps output....the 200 is available with either a hand or machine torch, the 2000 strictly machine torch.

If you were piercing 1" holes in 1" plate....I would expect about 200 to 250 starts on a set of consumables with a Max200, and about 800 to 1200 starts on a set of consumables with the HT2000. The main difference in the systems is with Hypertherm's Long-Life technology that uses a more sophisticated control system for accurately controlling gas and current ramp-up and ramp down...which dramatically improves consumable life.

Both units are 100% duty cycle designs.

As far as the use of these machines with "hobby class" or entry level cnc machines:

1. Structural steel is heavy....look at the designs of the frame of the machine, especially the cutting bed. Some entry level machines can do heavy materials occasionally.....but for long term production likely would not hold up well!
2. Can the CNC control work with a high frequency start plasma? All 100% duty cycle plasma systems use this technology to initialize the plasma cutting process.....you must be sure that the control systems can handle this high voltage/high frequency starting process every time the torch fires.
3. Thses torches are 2" diameter, are liquid cooled, have mutiple gas and power lines......they are heavy. Many entry level z axis drives and THC systems would have reliability and performance issues with these industrial torches.
4. Molten metal, heat, fumes. Needless to say, piercing 1" material at 200 amps produces a respectable flume of molten metal, and the fumes produced at 200 amps are more than double the fumes produced at 100 amps. A high flow downdraft system or a water table is necessary.

The Max200 is rated to pierce 1", the 2000 can pierce 1.5", both can edge start and cut 2". The 200 is cheaper to purchase, the 2000 is cheaper to operate.

A few things to think about!

Best regards, Jim

Originally Posted by energyforce All I have come to a jam where i need to make a decision on how to move forward. My hypertherm 45 is just not cutting it (no pun intended) for me. I am loyal as heck to Hypertherm and it is the way to go, but I need a larger plasma cutter. Right now I feel I want to target the structural steel market which in most cases would need services cutting 1/4" thick to 1" thick steel. Maybe in few cases 1.5" thick steel. For this market the accuracy does not need to meet that of iso 9013 or 0.001" accuracy. Would a very well-built but hobby CNC machine (im speaking geckos, candcnc, cnc4pc, or anything of that calibre) of a large size (i.e. 8ftx20ft) with a bigger badder hypertherm satisfy me? This way I can happily cut thicker steel, not caring that im not achieving 0.001 accuracies. Im struggling trying to narrow down which hypertherm I want. Also which hypertherm? I know I dont need hi-def for this market, but I want something real heavy duty and good for a hobby-type cnc machine accuracy. (i.e. i dont care if my 1/2" holes have divots). I dont want my consumables to die on me so quickly, or the duty cycle to max out on me (hence wanting heavy duty). I want to for instance be able to cut 100 holes in 1" thick steel with no problems. I do not think I want to go the oxy-acetylene torch route. We are looking to spend $15,000 to $20,000 on a Hypertherm. Is the max200 a good candidate for this market? Also my business partner and I plan to hit up the Fab Tech Expo in Atlanta to do some business research http://www.fabtechexpo.com/ regarding this issue and the products out there. Would this be a good move?

[jimcolt]

Dan,

Speed, backlash, acceleration. It is hard to put numbers on these parameters, but they all affect the plasma cutting process. Many times over the years I have seen High Definition class plasma systems installed on machines with poor motion capabilities....with the owner expecting the plasma system to fix his cut part inaccuracies....and while putting the best plasma on a sloppy machine may improve cut edge quality on straight or simple contours, sometimes it makes the issues worse on holes and intricate contours.

In a perfect world a plasma torch would work best on a machine with zero backlash, with 500 miligees of acceleration. Speed is not the most critical thing for most plasma applications as you can turn down the plasma process (lower amperage consumables, slower cut speeds)...so a machine with great acceleration , low backlash, low flex and max speed of 250 inches per minute can cover most plasma applications.

In reality, low backlash is extremely important (most high end machine builders use low backlash planetary gearboxes), many high end machines use helically cut rack and pinion gears, and or anti- backlash devices to ensure minimal backlash. Assuming the machine is mechanicall tight, then typically acceleration (at max cutting speed) needs to be at least 40 miligees....higher is better. The most important part of any cnc machine for best consumable life and best cut quality....the torch height control system.


Max200 vs HSD130
The Max200 is a 100% duty cycle air or oxygen plasma system that is available with either a hand or a machine torch. It was designed prior to Hypertherm's Long-Life consumables technology....so at 200 amps it can be expected to provide consumable life in the range of 150 to 400 starts depending on what you are cutting. It can pierce and cut 1" plate all day long.

The HSD130 is much newer technology, is a 130 Amp, 100% duty cycle mechanized only system. It has the same thickness range as the Max200, although the cut speeds are about 10% slower on 1" plate (only 130 amps vs 200). The HSD130 has Hypertherm's Long-Life technology, which can provide for between 1000 and 3000 starts on a set of consumables. The HSD130 is the little brother of the 200 Amp HT2000.

The Max200 is cheaper to buy, the HSD130 is far less expensive to operate. If I had a need for a non- high definition plasma system for high production use in the 1/8" to 1" range....and I wanted good quality cutting with the lowest cost per cut...the HSD130 would win hands down over the Max200. If I had a limited budget to buy a 1" production cutting plasma...the Max200 may be the best choice.

Jim Colt

Originally Posted by DanOSB what is minimum requirement for following below? Speed backlash acceleration/deceleration any other parameters that we are required to run those bigger plasma cutter? also what is difference between max200 and hsd 130 (they are about same price range?) Cheers Dan

[DanOSB]

Jim, thanks for your reply.. you always do explain all details we all appreicate it.. makes us understand things alot better..

one more question.. comparing hsd130 and ht2000 for peirce on 1 inch plate/1 inch hole

how many peirces can they do each? are they compareable? just slower with the 130 amp instead of 200 amp (ht2000)

Thanks
Dan

[jimcolt]

Dan,

The HT2000 will pierce at a faster speed ( I don't have the info in front of me....but I think the 2000 pierces 1" plate in .9 seconds, the 130 is likely around 1.5 seconds) and the 2000 consumables should last longer when piercing 1" plate.

1" is Max pierce for the 130....1" pierce for the HT2000 is just loafing.

I'm guessing a bit here, but I would (with a good torch height control system) expect about 600 to 1000 pierces on 1" plate with the HSD, and maybe 20% more with the 2000. The 2000 will cut considerably faster so there would be a much larger pile of cut parts with the 2000 after the consumables were changed out as compared to the 130.

If I was cutting 1/2" material, the numer of pierces with each system, and the quantity of parts cut would be closer....however the 130 parts would be of better cut quality....130 amps is a better process for 1/2" plate.

Jim

[DanOSB]

What are msrp for the following machines

ht2000
max200
hsd130

how much are the consumable (electrode and nozzle) or is there more parts that needs to be changed?


Cheers
Dan

[energyforce]

Can an oil lubricated industrial air compressor be used to feed air to the ht2000 with a refrigerated air dryer and numerous filters with drains on a timer?

Or is it better recommended to by air in a bottle from the local welding supply store? I can see this costing more in the long run.

[jimcolt]

The HT2000 normally uses oxygen as the plasma gas and air as the shield gas. Is there oil being injected into the airlines as a lubricant for air tools? If so.....you cannot use this air for the plasma.

If it is just an industrial compressor that has its own oil lubrication.....then that is perfectly fine....with the use of an air dryer and an oil separator and particulate filter.

Jim

[DanOSB]

Hi Jim,

I have been looking for parts number for everything i would need to run a bigger plasma unit on my machine.. but I cant find the info for that.. (I need exact part number so I can give it to my Local welding store to get me price quote)

We are currently considering either HT 2000 or HPR 260 XP

we will be running manual gas console for sure..

we will need 35' torch lead



For HPR 260 xp part numbers.. are those parts what i need to have it running completely?
078561 (power supply (600vac))
078172 (ignition console)
078532 (Gas console)
078534 (Off valve)
what is the part number for 35' torch hose/torch itself

any other parts am i missing?

for ht2000 i couldnt find any part number (must be looking at wrong manual or something


Thanks
Dan

[jimcolt]

Dan,

If you call Hypertherm at 1 800 643 0030 and ask for Bruce Dennison, he can help specify the parts numbers for the systems you are looking for. He will probably ask you a few questions regardng the machine you are mounting the system on, in order to specify the correct interconnecting lead lengths (cables, hoses etc that connect all of the Hypertherm control modules), he also may provid you with information regarding preferred mounting of components (it is rare that a 35' torch lead is necessary, as the ignition consile normally is mounted near the torch).

Bruce can also direct you to an authorized distributor. Our mechanized systems are only available at distributors that are authorized to sell them....as they have to go through factory training to service and support the systems after the sale.

If you have trouble contacting Bruce, please get back to me directly and I will try to help....I am a bit tied up for the next week at the Fabtech show in Atlanta, so it may be difficult for me to help directly. Jim Colt jim.colt@hypertherm.com