2017 HURCO VMX30HSi or 2017 HAAS VF3-SS and same question on lathes ?

[Dxmax]

Hi guys and girls,

I post a new thread here on the subject I'm concerne about 'cause I only found older machine based equivalent comparison.

Here is the context:
- I have a project to start a new shop at the beginning of 2018,
- I have no CNC tooling at the moment,
- I plan to start with new machines: 1 VMC and a Lathe with Y axis capability.

Work type:
- Mainly single or small batches up to 50 pieces,
- Ermergency style -> very short time between client order to delivery is the "main" goal.
- Materials are varied: from aluminium to stainless, tool steel and in a second time Titanium alloys if possible.
- Indeed I target the better surface quality possible as well as very close tolerances when needed (mainly .002", but sometimes it will be .0005" as well).

For the prog. I have at least to "technical" solutions:
- Conversational programming,
- CAD/CAM programming,

I was first thinking to go with a full Haas solution since I know them from a long time, they have a very good communication (youtube, haas website..). But I've recently been visited by the local Hurco reseller ! He showed me some of their machines (in books for the moment), specs and so on. Then I went to their website, looked a lot of hurco's videos (not as good as Haas ones IMHO) but it seems to me that Hurco's conversational programming interface is far better than Haas's, cheaper than a decent CAD/CAM software and capable of programming 4 axis both on lathe and mills ...
Haas's recent models seem pretty reliable, what about Hurco's ?

Do some you guys and girls, have ever used or seen recent haas/hurco machines and could give me your opinion on them please ?

Thank you by advance to all the peoples that will try to help.
(Please excuse me if my English is not perfect as this is not my native tongue and I didn't practiced it for a while ).

Dxmax

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[underthetire]

Imo, once you get going on cad cam, you won't much use conversational. Neither will be great at hard materials, but they would work. From reliability and parts replacement cost HAAS wins hands down. We have all brands at work, the Hurcos have always required the most repairs, and parts cost is much higher than even the higher end Japanese machines. If you truly are going after high surface finish, look at machines that have integral spindles like a MORI or Okuma, although they will be more expensive. My personal preference right now on plain 3 or 4 axis mills is Okuma, and that has changed since I was a MORI guy for years.

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[thaisurplus]

I work on both of these machines Haas and Hurco.
Hurco is a more robust machine, has good conversational programming and are just built better. they can take any program, and you can program your next part while it is making the first one.
just because a Mercedes costs more to service, doesnt make a Honda better than a mercedes, some companies just charge higher margins.
Haas is a good machine but not solid built , has good pricing service and parts availability because they chose to "cheapen" the castings and the rest of the parts, it is more for the masses in the smaller machines.

Congratulations on the Project for CNC
I am curious why you want to invest in a "job shop" it is the worst business model to capitalize!
production runs will support large capital expense.

Any machine will do the same job, perhaps small time differences. ( mill to mill / lathe to lathe ) Tolerances and repeatability are proportional to quality.

Surface Finish quality is up to tooling+speeds+feeds you will have to find the "sweet spot" to get the finishes you require.

I have several Hurcos for sale vmx42 vmx 50 vm20 and tm8 late model machines at a much lower price than new....

just look at the weight of the machine table size vs weight, castings are the difference in machines when all you do is buy off-the-shelf components (every manufacturer does it).

[Tlarson]

I service and repair Haas Machines and i have done preventive maintenance on everything from bridge ports to huge moris and okumas ect... A Haas can hold 0.0005" all day if its leveled and the spindle is shimmed correctly. But all the parts have a shelf life, you will be replacing parts more often on a haas than almost any other CNC machine, In my opinion their lathes are JUNK, the turret is air driven not Hydraulic and just arent as ridged as most others, I would stay away from a haas lathe if it was my money. The hurco will hold better tolerance but 0.002 and 0.0005 will be easy to hold on both. In terms of programming I cant help with, Tool changer on a Haas is a weak point air driven tool release, lots of noise and lots of popping that you will hear in a small shop and their spindles tend to be loud. Options and price and needs are the biggest question with your tolerance. How big are the parts and how big of a machine will you need?

[robertstevenbk]

I looked a lot of hurco's videos (not as good as Haas ones IMHO) but it seems to me that Hurco's conversational programming interface is far better than Haas's, cheaper than a decent CAD/CAM software and capable of programming 4 axis both on lathe and mills ...
Haas's recent models seem pretty reliable, what about Hurco's ?

[robertstevenbk]

Hurcos have always required the most repairs, and parts cost is much higher than even the higher end Japanese machines https://welderstream.com/best-tig-welder