Winchester 1885 Falling Block Rifle Blueprints

[Nono]

Found another set of prints []
[img]farm3.static.flickr.com/2077/2242333625_fcc4759867.jpg?v=0[/img]

[img]farm3.static.flickr.com/2020/2243125760_39e1eea7cf.jpg?v=0[/img]

[img]farm3.static.flickr.com/2099/2242333775_b9d00ab116.jpg?v=0[/img]

[img]farm3.static.flickr.com/2247/2242333871_c19ca1fb40.jpg?v=0[/img]

[img]farm3.static.flickr.com/2249/2243126036_05e70329ed.jpg?v=0[/img]
http://kwk.us/FA has the receiver castings..

[zouaveshooter]

Thank you for these high value informations.
Almost impossible to get them from the old continent.

Is this castings maker still working ?
What are his parts made of ?

I intend to make one matching with the original version.
I had a BPCR in 40.65 years ago, good shooting, but meaning nothing to me because of its modern "guts".

regards

Bernard

[onewelder]

Originally Posted by Nono Found another set of prints [] [img]farm3.static.flickr.com/2077/2242333625_fcc4759867.jpg?v=0[/img] [img]farm3.static.flickr.com/2020/2243125760_39e1eea7cf.jpg?v=0[/img] [img]farm3.static.flickr.com/2099/2242333775_b9d00ab116.jpg?v=0[/img] [img]farm3.static.flickr.com/2247/2242333871_c19ca1fb40.jpg?v=0[/img] [img]farm3.static.flickr.com/2249/2243126036_05e70329ed.jpg?v=0[/img] http://kwk.us/FA has the receiver castings..

These drawings are great, but I need a dwg of the breach block and the location of all the holes. Do you know where I can get that info
Thanks,
GregS

[oldgun]

All I was able to find was this book selling for $140.00.

http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,52.html

But, I was hoping to find a free machinist's drawing of the receiver. Does anybody have any ideas where to locate such a beast? Maybe some affluent forum member has already purchased the book and might be willing to post/e-mail a couple of pages? (with permission of course)

Also, does anybody have any idea on if the patent has expired. How is Uberti able to make it's 1885 knock off. Did they buy the rights, or did the patent slip into public domain?

Rich (oldgun)

[trevj1]

Originally Posted by oldgun All I was able to find was this book selling for $140.00. http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,52.html But, I was hoping to find a free machinist's drawing of the receiver. Does anybody have any ideas where to locate such a beast? Maybe some affluent forum member has already purchased the book and might be willing to post/e-mail a couple of pages? (with permission of course) Also, does anybody have any idea on if the patent has expired. How is Uberti able to make it's 1885 knock off. Did they buy the rights, or did the patent slip into public domain? Rich (oldgun)

It's not a book. Its a rolled handful of large format blueprint style drawings.
FWIW, they are meant to be used with a casting kit that was available at one time. There are other companies supplying casting kits, but the one these were drawn for, has faded away, from what I have picked up over the years I have been interested in 1885's.
I'm reasonably certain that the same drawings, in a much smaller print size format, can be got from the Archivist for the ASSRA, for about $10. You may need to be a member, but that is still a whole lot cheaper than the Buffalo Arms Drawings set.

Winchester pretty much quit on the Model 1885 in the 1920's or thereabouts. Public domain now. The outfits making original style actions are mostly using reverse engineering (copying parts, averaging out tolerances, making best guesses at missing details, etc).

There is nothing special about the holes being in the exact location, really. Most, if not all of it, can be determined with some drawing and a few cardboard cutout models, if the drawing alone does not work for you. Think through it, and work out the order you need to fit and test the parts and it will come together.

If you want to make parts that are interchangeable, though, with originals, without having the action on hand, that's not gonna work.

See if you can grab a copy of Campbell's two books on the Winchester Single Shot. Some detailed drawings therein, but not all the details.

Cheers
Trev

[onewelder]

Just got 20 great drawings 11X17 from Western Sky Publishing Inc, Sandy Hook CT $39.95, wdshpbiz@aol.com. Some are original 1906, and some are from Tools International Inc, Gilmer TX, 1996, springs, threads, wood etc. Some of the guys at ASSRA suggested Frank de Haas's book Gunsmithing Ideas which is being reprinted by gunbooksales.com for $22.50 which has dimensioned sketches. I bought some nice investment castings 30 years ago and never knew who made them, they are partially machined, some of the holes are drilled and reamed and am now putting it together, just threaded the barrel but don't have an old breech block to copy. Have some extra parts if some one is building or repairing a Wall.
Good Luck

Originally Posted by trevj1 It's not a book. Its a rolled handful of large format blueprint style drawings. FWIW, they are meant to be used with a casting kit that was available at one time. There are other companies supplying casting kits, but the one these were drawn for, has faded away, from what I have picked up over the years I have been interested in 1885's. I'm reasonably certain that the same drawings, in a much smaller print size format, can be got from the Archivist for the ASSRA, for about $10. You may need to be a member, but that is still a whole lot cheaper than the Buffalo Arms Drawings set. Winchester pretty much quit on the Model 1885 in the 1920's or thereabouts. Public domain now. The outfits making original style actions are mostly using reverse engineering (copying parts, averaging out tolerances, making best guesses at missing details, etc). There is nothing special about the holes being in the exact location, really. Most, if not all of it, can be determined with some drawing and a few cardboard cutout models, if the drawing alone does not work for you. Think through it, and work out the order you need to fit and test the parts and it will come together. If you want to make parts that are interchangeable, though, with originals, without having the action on hand, that's not gonna work. See if you can grab a copy of Campbell's two books on the Winchester Single Shot. Some detailed drawings therein, but not all the details. Cheers Trev

[mjb]

I took the De Hass book to the copy place and got his drawings blown up to full size. I might still have a copy if that would be helpful. I've been looking at my project lately thinking I'm really close and should bite the bullet and harden and temper it and finish it.
take care
Mike

[onewelder]

Thanks for the offer Mike, of all the drawings I've got now,none have the coil spring breech block details, am hopeing the Idea book has some good numbers, do you have a outfit I can get a stock and fore arm from, need a pistol grip.
Thanks, Greg

Originally Posted by mjb I took the De Hass book to the copy place and got his drawings blown up to full size. I might still have a copy if that would be helpful. I've been looking at my project lately thinking I'm really close and should bite the bullet and harden and temper it and finish it. take care Mike

[mjb]

No I don't have anything on the coil spring set up. Mines a flat springer and the hammer was an interesting part to make. It has the hammer profile with the tongue that sticks out to catch the flat spring. The hammer is about .345 thick and has turned bosses on both sides at the pivot hole, to make it .683 at the bosses. to fit between the sides of the block. It always looked like for the coil spring they cut off the tongue and used a plunger to control the lever then the coil wrapped around the bosses. Never could figure out how they put it together. I would love to take a coil springer apart...
As far as wood , that seems like a do it yourself project I have done a stock, It is straight like the original not pistol grip. I still need to do the forearm. The barrel is half octagon half round so I'll probably have to make a tool to cut the barrel channel.
take care
Mike

[dengvall]

Hi all,
I hope this ends up in the right place because I can not find a way to set the title or respond to an individual poster.

That said I've done a bit of playing with the breech block for the 1885 ss. I have a copy of the original drawings but signed an NDA so really cannot copy them.
The coil spring breechblock is interesting because the hammer lacks the long tail to work against the flat spring. On the other hand the breech block has some tapered holes to accommodate the coil spring. I have lots of coil springs. They are difficult to install because they are a bit stiff in the corners and unless one is very careful they will break. One can alway gamble a bit and heat the corner bends to red hot and then let them cool in air. PM me if interested.

Breech blocks for the SS (IMHO) should be made of either 4140 or 8620. My choice would be 8620 because it heat treats easily. Heat a bath of plain salt ( NaCl) till it melts and then a bit. Immerse the part to be treated and after it gets hot enough so the salt doesn't freeze on it then soak for awhile; depending on the thickness of the part. Quench in water.
Hardness will be in the Rc 40+ range. Immediately soak (temper) in an oven at 300 degrees for 2 hrs. The carbon level is too low to worry about temper embrittlement.

That doesn't mean you can't make them out of something else. YMMV.

D