Need Help!- hardinge hnc with ge550 not working

[Daniel Wilcox]

i picked up a hardinge hnc lathe with a ge mark century 550 control. I got her fired up after tracking down the cause of a burnt fuse (seized fan), and it slowly began to work. at first, it would only move in small increments every time i fliped the jog switches in either jog mode. after playing with it, it began jogging as it was supposed to. i was then able to set tool ofsets, get the turret to move, etc all in mdi mode. i hit the ref zero button and it started moving, then before it stopped, the machine completely shut down. the green power button was still backlit and the fans were on, but everything else was dead. No fuses were blown as far as i could tell (i think i found them all). Air pressure is about 90psi so i dont tihnk it's that, but it is acting like it shut down due to low air pressure. i was going to track down the air pressure sensor and try bypassing it to see if that's the problem but i havent gotten that far yet. Any ideas?
side note, alot of the buttons were frozen or the backs poped off the contact blocks, so i replaced a bunch of them with momentary push buttons. not sure if that is related to this issue. The ones i replaced were x home, z home, gaurd open, stop auto mode, read error, and super precision mode. When i first fired up the machine, everytime i pushed the x or z home buttons, the machine would shut down, similar to what it did this time, only now i cant get it to start back up again.
Just curious if there is something simple that i'm overlooking, or if there is a common problem similar to what i'm experiencing.
Thanks,
Dan

[Daniel Wilcox]

well it looks like i got no power to or from the 12 and 5v power supplies. There's a heavier gauge red and white wire twisted together which i assume is the power wires going to the power suplies. they are dead, and i'm getting a closed loop when i check resistance between them. all fuses look to be good.
any thoughts?

[WGoyer]

Dan,
You might be on an extreme limit. It is hard to tell when X is on the limit since it has such a short travel. X can be easily cranked by taking the cover off the front bearing pack.

You model probably has the GE pushbuttons, an I'll fated experiment by a GE manager who wanted all GE components in the controls, even though Dialco and Electrocraft made superior buttons.

Do you have prints?

Warren
www.uptimecorp.com

[Daniel Wilcox]

Originally Posted by WGoyer Dan, You might be on an extreme limit. It is hard to tell when X is on the limit since it has such a short travel. X can be easily cranked by taking the cover off the front bearing pack. You model probably has the GE pushbuttons, an I'll fated experiment by a GE manager who wanted all GE components in the controls, even though Dialco and Electrocraft made superior buttons. Do you have prints? Warren www.uptimecorp.com

Warren,
I was almost thinking that, but then i didnt think that it would just shut the power down. The more i read the manual, it seems to make more sense that it did that. I am learning alot about the machine by browsing through what few sections of wire diagrams and manuals i have. seems to be a very archaic machine lol
looks like the relay that controls the power to the power suplies isnt activated, so something is keeping it from powering up (limit switch, air pressure switch, etc). The 25v power supply is working, so it isnt that.
More than likely you're right, so i'll check it out. Thanks alot!
It does have the ge buttons. i hope they were all momentary,because that's what i replaced them with. do you know any decent replacements for them that arent $$$$$?
btw, the memory battery is missing. Do you know of a replacement battery for it, or at least the specs? I can find any info on the battery in what i have.

[Daniel Wilcox]

well looks like you're right Warren, it fired right up afterwards.
I guess i gotta figure out how to run this thing now. The USTOR unit seems fairly unresponsive, it just says zero on the display. if i hit the $ button, it shows a star and some digits. i gotta figure out how to upload some mastercam programs to this thing since it seems to have an rs232 port on the USTOR box.
another odd thing is it doesnt seem to want to take x or z movements in mdi, the cycle start light just stays on till i hit clear and it doesnt move. i entered a g0 before hand, not sure what i'm missing. moving the turret works, and it moves in x/z when i enter an offset with the tool number. Also i can get the spindle to turn on and off. i'm guessing i'm just entering something right.

[WGoyer]

Dan,

The GE buttons mostly just fall apart and are not damaged. If money is an object, I'd try gluing them back together. They use both normally open and closed contacts and it is very easy to get the wires on wrong when changing them so be careful. The tan GE book has a very nice cross reference listing all of the pushbuttons on one page, along with the page they are shown in the book. It can help if a wire falls off.

As for the U-Stor, you definitely need a book to use it. I could have my intern scan one for you if you want to pay for his time.

You probably need to get to home in X and Z before it will accept an axis move. Offhand, I don't know how to bypass that.

Good Luck,
Warren
www.uptimecorp.com

[Daniel Wilcox]

Warren,
appreciate the help. all the buttons i replaced only had 2 contacts. every button that had more than one contact was still usable, but all these ones were toast. i couldnt even push them in, even when the back was replaced. very weird.
i think i have a book for the ustor somewhere, so i'll start reading it. do you happen to know what kind of battery that thing takes for the memory? it is missing completely.
Thanks alot!
Dan

EDIT: wow, i'm an idiot. the reason why they couldnt be pushed was because they were lights, not buttons! DOH!

Originally Posted by WGoyer Dan, The GE buttons mostly just fall apart and are not damaged. If money is an object, I'd try gluing them back together. They use both normally open and closed contacts and it is very easy to get the wires on wrong when changing them so be careful. The tan GE book has a very nice cross reference listing all of the pushbuttons on one page, along with the page they are shown in the book. It can help if a wire falls off. As for the U-Stor, you definitely need a book to use it. I could have my intern scan one for you if you want to pay for his time. You probably need to get to home in X and Z before it will accept an axis move. Offhand, I don't know how to bypass that. Good Luck, Warren www.uptimecorp.com

[WGoyer]

Dan,

Sorry, I meant to address the batteries: They are just D cell Ni-Cads with solder tabs. If I remember correctly, you need to jumper something inside the U-Stor to operate it without batteries to keep the charger from hurting the memory. There's a note in the U-Stor book.

Warren
www.uptimecorp.com

[Daniel Wilcox]

Originally Posted by WGoyer Dan, Sorry, I meant to address the batteries: They are just D cell Ni-Cads with solder tabs. If I remember correctly, you need to jumper something inside the U-Stor to operate it without batteries to keep the charger from hurting the memory. There's a note in the U-Stor book. Warren www.uptimecorp.com

great, thanks! do you know how many batteries it takes? all i have is 2 wires coming off the charger with nothing attached.

Also, i found another issue... there is a bad connection somewhere in the pannel, the lights behind the "wind to code" and "optional stop" buttons dont come on sometimes, and it wont let me enter data in mdi at all when that happens, almost like the keypad goes out as well. I wiggled something in the back and it turned on for a second and everything worked, then it went out again and i cant trace it down because the lights wont go back on. i'm in the process of checking everything now.

EDIT: found the issue, broken wire! fixed. why would anyone use solid core wire in a control like that??

[Daniel Wilcox]

ok i just found the batteries inside the ustor unit. did not know they were in there. I saw what is labeled as a ge battery charger and some clipped wires coming off of it up on the top of the controler cabinet and assumed it was for the ustor. are there other batteries in this controller?


got the machine working completely in mdi mode now. everything seems good. i'm going to pick up some led's later on for the pannel to replace the buttons i put in there lol
now i guess i'm going to try to upload some programs from mastercam.

[WGoyer]

Dan,
The batteries inside the control are for the tool offsets. We've used a 12V Gel cell to replace those for years. The four 1.2 volt Nickel Cadmium batteries inside the U-Stor are the same cell type.

Most people run their U-Stor's at 2400 baud. You can easily punch in a program by hand, just to get started.

Warren
www.uptimecorp.com

[Daniel Wilcox]

Originally Posted by WGoyer Dan, The batteries inside the control are for the tool offsets. We've used a 12V Gel cell to replace those for years. The four 1.2 volt Nickel Cadmium batteries inside the U-Stor are the same cell type. Most people run their U-Stor's at 2400 baud. You can easily punch in a program by hand, just to get started. Warren www.uptimecorp.com

Great, thanks!
i saw the baud rate din switches were set to 2400. I just got a computer setup in the garage for transfering programs so i'll make up a cable and try it out sometime soon.
As for the gel cell battery, are you refering to something like a 12v gel motorcycle or lawnmower battery from an auto parts store? or is there something specific you use?