What the hell can I do?

[orionstarman]

Ok, I'm just the guy at the cutting end of the end mill. I have enough trouble trying to get new tool holders out of my boss so forget about fancy tool testing and software. All I want to know is what can I do to make more chips faster, increase tool life, not damage our machine (2 year old Mazak Nexus 510c) and get myself a big fat raise.

I love my job. I want nothing more than to do my job faster and better. I push myself all the the time to get better at what I do. My boss on the other hand talks the talk but he does not always walk the walk. He wants more productivity, what boss doesn't. But, he seems to think that just means the machinist has to work harder/faster. I can't blame him too much cus he has a boss too. Hey, he did buy the new Mazak but he really skimped on the tools and tool holders. So, what I want to know is what can I do out at the machine to speed things up without begging my boss to spend more money? A list of books to read and websites to check out would be helpful. Thanks

[little bubba]

Here's a couple of websites you may want to consider.

Monster.com
Helpwanted.com

Get out of there, you have idiots in the higher positions.

My guess is that your boss, who pushed to get the machine is under pressure to keep costs down, since now there is a machine payment. I'm sure he knows you need to spend money to make money but the bean counters don't understand that. Its easier for him to keep costs low, keeps them off his a@@. If he buys you $1000 in holders and quality cutting tools, which nets another 5k per month, he is still going to be evil in the mind of the bean counters for spending $1000.

I've been your boss, it sucks, the owner got me a nice new $21k automatic bandsaw, and then gave me hell when I spent $200 on sawblades. Then the idiot gave me hell when he would show up every other week and it wasn't running. What the dips@@t didn't understand is that it was fast, it was like having a free employee, and the savings on material from being able to make accurate, straight, consistant cut, was huge also(maybe the pallets of cut up stock should have given it away). Probably paid for itself in about 4 months. But I was the rotten horrible one for buying bandsaw blades.

I think its great that you want to be better at something you really enjoy, don't do it for the idiots you work for, do it for yourself, to make yourself a better machininst, to make more money down the line, or open your own business.

As for specifics on how to go faster, you were pretty vague, but asking specific questions and reading this and other boards will help you along greatly. Also there are a ton of free trade magazines, just subscribe online, some have good info, some just suck, but at least they can give you ideas.

[Geof]

Originally Posted by little bubba ....I think its great that you want to be better at something you really enjoy, don't do it for the idiots you work for,.....

Amen!

And I am a boss!

[g-codeguy]

Originally Posted by orionstarman Ok, I'm just the guy at the cutting end of the end mill. I have enough trouble trying to get new tool holders out of my boss so forget about fancy tool testing and software. All I want to know is what can I do to make more chips faster, increase tool life, not damage our machine (2 year old Mazak Nexus 510c) and get myself a big fat raise. I love my job. I want nothing more than to do my job faster and better. I push myself all the the time to get better at what I do. My boss on the other hand talks the talk but he does not always walk the walk. He wants more productivity, what boss doesn't. But, he seems to think that just means the machinist has to work harder/faster. I can't blame him too much cus he has a boss too. Hey, he did buy the new Mazak but he really skimped on the tools and tool holders. So, what I want to know is what can I do out at the machine to speed things up without begging my boss to spend more money? A list of books to read and websites to check out would be helpful. Thanks

Been in that position for over 20 years! Should have got out years ago. Owner bought 8 new lathes over about 3-4 year span. Then screamed bloody murder every time I wanted more tooling and bushings. Boring bars are $60 apiece and you want how many? Never mind the fact that our operators know nothing about machining. Never check insert wear. Keep running until an insert fails and destroys that tool and maybe 4 more after it.

Ranting finished. You need to give specifics in order to get specifics. One of the best places to save money is on set-ups. Have inserts, tooling, bushings, jaws, holders, etc. ready before needing them to set-up. It is nothing for me to spend an extra hour (and sometimes more) running down these things WHILE trying to set-up.

BTW, I am a programmer who also helps out with set-ups. A position was made at our shop for a person to make sure all this was already done. Plus making sure that I or the other lathe programmer knew when to have a specific job programmed. Didn't work out too well. She still has the position, but company added other duties for her to do. Plus she will gladly move parts, handle incoming tooling for the Tool Crib guy, etc. instead of concentrating on finding boring bars, bushings, etc. BEFORE you actually need them.

Another place significant time can be saved is in drilling operations. Course this may require spending a bit more for tooling. A good drill such as an OSG EX-GOLD drill will not only run at a higher SFM, but at what you might consider excessive feedrates if use to running HSS or Cobalt drills. Coated spade drills also run faster and with heavier feedrates than a standard drill. Carbide drills can run at insane SFM, usually with lower feedrates than either of the previously mentioned type drills.

However, the most savings can be gotten with the most expensive type of drills. Insert drills. Not all are created equal. They require someone to pay attention to the sound of their cutting, and to understand what they are seeing when they look at the chips being made. High pressure coolant thru is an advantage on spade, carbide with coolant thru, and insert drills, but not necessary. Our high-pressure lathes are running about 150psi. Yeah, I know. A joke. Still...it is better than what they were running. High pressure costs money.

The previously mentioned girl might have ruined one drill in her years of running a lathe. Maybe. Yet a young man I considered quite intelligent, who also had a decent grasp of programming, blew up more insert drills than anyone else in our shop.

Ask if you have any specific questions. I'm sure you will get a lot of help here.

BTW, good luck getting that raise. Raises are almost unheard of where I work. Many are still working without one after 7-8 years, including yours truly. Course a few of us have been there a long time. Apparently we've reached that point where the company feels we are making as much as they are willing to pay. Which is lower than many surrounding shops. We do work a lot of hours, tho.

[carlos1970]

yeah get out
people like your boss have money and they have absolutely no respect
for his working employees...
i worked for a cheap boss totally could not stand him
wanted bushings ok
he was doing a 5000$ renovation on his kitchen yet he could not buy me a couple hundred dollars in tooling to makemy job doing jobs on the machine better and and with less down time on set ups..
screw out of there. hang your hat when you leave.. for a better job that the place appreciates your hard work..

[Red Frog]

[quote=little bubba;425726]Here's a couple of websites you may want to consider.

Monster.com
Helpwanted.com


I laughed hard when I read the websites first. It is a fantasy that people can just quit any time they want. Intelligent shop owners are few and bean counters are 99% relatives that never made a chip in their lives.

[elmerfud]

When I have a lazy, selfish boss I tend to play with machine parameters which gives me a chuckle when he spends heaps fixing it.
Another good one, block your mobile phone ID and ring the office, when he answers hang up. Do it while you are standing near to him, trust me it's priceless the look of red anger. Dont get busted smirking though, stone cold mother f**ker is the only way to deal with these guys, and its good for laugh.

[little bubba]

[quote=Red Frog;447710]

Originally Posted by little bubba It is a fantasy that people can just quit any time they want. Intelligent shop owners are few and bean counters are 99% relatives that never made a chip in their lives.

I think everybody knows you can't just QUIT, sometimes you just can't stand it and you do. What this kid needs to do, it he enjoys what he does is learn on the owners dime, and keep the feelers out. Thats what I did, I hated my job(the owner and the bull$h!t), so I spent a lot of time trying to do things better. I bought different tools, I experimented, I learned how to fix machines, I did a lot of research, CAM tutorials, trade shows, seminars, all on the owners dime. I made him a butt load of money, but now I'm making myself even more. I'm sure glad I didn't have to learn on my dime, I'm always learning, but I think I got a lot of the basics out of the way.

[orionstarman]

You guys got it a little bit wrong. I love my job and the company that I work for. I have been in some real dumps in the past and this place is by far the best I have ever worked in. My boss is not against buying new tools but he does want the justification for it. My problem was that I hit him with a $2000 list of things I think we needed and he freeked out. I'm sure I can get what I need it's just going to take time. The things I really need help with are like this:

One of the old school way's of doing things was/is to take deep slow cuts with lots of coolant when removing a lot of metal. Now a days it's light cuts at high speed with no coolant. Case in point. The inserts on our 3" face mill were chipping out way too fast on D2 tool steel. So I talk to our supplier and he calls the insert rep. They tell me that the inserts are chipping because of thermal shock and to run them at higher feed rates without coolant. Between 300 and 700 SFM and .008 and .02 chip load. So I do it. I start out on the low side and it seem to be working fine at first. Later, it seem that this works no better than the way we were doing it before. Should I run it at even higher feed and speeds or go back to the old school way. I don't know. Trail and error is one way to learn but it can be costly. I just wish there was some where to read and learn with out wasting so much time and money.

[Red Frog]

I see where you are going with this. There are just too many variables and environments to give you solid information. This is why the insert representative gave you a range. Try and make a professional presentation of your experiments showing productivity and costs. This in itself will help you later for your own business and experience.

[dcorbett]

Do you have any statistical programs available?
Sometimes setting up a new insert depends more on the machine than the insert.
There are ways to figure out quickly what the "best" feeds & speeds are using a statistical program like Minitab, or JMP. Even the "old" versions of these should be good enough to help figure these out.

Good luck.

[ImanCarrot]

Put your concerns in money terms- not time. Bosses understand money.

"buy me them new tools and I can do that 10 hour job in 8 hours- at our hourly costing rate that's a real saving of x dollars"

I had a similar problem when I wanted to subcontract some low spec parts- it just wasn't ecconomicaly sensible for me to be making them when I could be manufacturing other parts that were worth 12 times more- I wrote it down and gave the commercial director and boss a copy and let them mull it over- I got my way in the end