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  1. #61
    Klaus
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    Default HSM

    Agree fully with Hardmill. I am interestedin previous experiences of users on different machines. That would be a more balanced approach that the one salesman give.

    Anyone have any experience on OPS machines?



  2. #62
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    We'd love to here about them Klaus.

    PEACE



  3. #63
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    Interesting thread fellas.
    I am new to this forum and find some very interesting discussions. I am particulary interested in how things work out with the new Makino. I have been salivating over a new V55 for some time. The work load will need to pick up a little more before I can make that step.

    As for quick delivery. When we got our VF7 we ordered it on a Thursday and were runnig production on the following Wednesday night. BTW we are in rural upstate NY and the machine was still on the factory floor in Oxnard. Pretty amazing.

    ARB
    "That Will Be a dollar for the work and a dollar for knowing how" FB


  4. #64
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    Default Makino

    We have purchased two new Makino's
    one s33 with a pallet changer and a v56
    Both will come with a 20,000 rpm spindle
    Any and all advice would be great.



    rollie


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    Conrats!!!
    I'll be in touch as soon as I get back home.

    PEACE



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    Hi, My name is Randy. I can't help you with what machine to use but I can refer other useful methods that can be used once you get into HSM. No matter what machine you end up purchasing, you will encounter chatter at one time or another which will need to be addressed. See this forum for some things to look into on chatter: http://www.cnczone.com/showthread.ph...4220#post14220

    Other issues such as balance, cutters and tool holders will need to be considered also.



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    Thanks we are looking into Command or Lyndex for tooling up the HSM'S. We will be using balanced holders. If anyone has any suggestions as to any other tooling it would be great to hear about.The machines should be here next month.

    rollie


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  9. #69
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    Hi Guys,

    I saw an OKK HM60 at a local guys warehouse that he wants to sell. It is about five years old, but it's never been used. I think he said it was about $145,000.00 or so. I was looking for a lather so I didn't pay much attention to it. If you want more info just let me know. My e-mail is merlinmachineandtooling@hotmail.com

    Adam



  10. #70
    Mfg Engineer Scott_bob's Avatar
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    I'd like to add my opinion to this discussion…

    http://www.cnczone.com/showthread.php?threadid=2294&s=

    I’m hoping this link works…

    I wonder how many of you would be interested in a little comparison?
    A friend of mine created a test program that determines a CNC machines BPT or (Block Processing Time).

    1) I’ll attach the Word document tomorrow that defines the theory and test criteria…
    2) The CNC program is to enable you to test your CNC machine to find out your machine controls BPT.

    I’ll post the results and the list of CNC machine controls that have participated so far.
    This test program only moves in air and simply chokes a control down to it’s terminal velocity or maximum block processing speed. The program just moves in a 4” diameter circle in .0005 increments (closer together than most 3D programs).

    In order for this test process to be fair, all CNC controls have made NO change to the X and Y values. Activating any high speed processing codes for the control is ok, but no utility that fits a spline curve or arc fitting through points would be a fair comparison. All of the other controls would obviously benefit from that as well. The purpose of this test and comparison is to determine your CNC machines BPT and compare that to 12 other CNC machines (so far)…

    Is anybody interested?

    It is important to know that this is just one variable in the equation of HSM and not the only thing that matters in good high speed motion control…

    Regards,
    Scott

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Hsm Machines-bpt-chart-jpg  
    Last edited by Scott_bob; 01-13-2004 at 02:04 PM.
    Scott_bob


  11. #71
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    This CNC Control comparision is based on performance during execution of a high speed BPT test program.
    This program is designed to determine a CNC controls capability of executing motion, or BPT by very small incremental moves.
    BPT or (Block Processing Time) is a constant value, and is representative of cycle time performance.
    All these CNCs have "newer" AC Digital Servos, except the Numeryx or Rubicon Control on a 12 year old Mazak with "older" DC servos…

    Regards,
    Scott

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Hsm Machines-feed-chart-jpg  
    Last edited by Scott_bob; 01-13-2004 at 02:05 PM.
    Scott_bob


  12. #72
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    From the cycle time comparisions that we have done, 3D contouring performance pretty closely follows the charts shown here...

    Keep in mind that If a CNC can't move thru data points fast enough, it is not going to be faster than another CNC that can move thru those points...

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Hsm Machines-percent-faster-chart-jpg  
    Last edited by Scott_bob; 01-13-2004 at 02:39 PM.
    Scott_bob


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    this looks like some fun.

    PEACE



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    Scott,

    What model of DMG are you talking about and what type of control does it have? The control be either a Heidenhain or a Siemens and there are different models of each. DMG is the machine manufacturer and it manufactures a whole range of milling machines, from the normal milling machine , machining centres up the the top range of HSM.

    Last edited by Mouldmaker; 12-12-2003 at 01:05 AM.


  15. #75
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    The participating DMG machine is a:
    DMG 70V with a Heidenhain TNC426 Control

    If there are any Heidenhain users out there, help us out here.
    When we saw how slow this control performed, we thought that maybe a code that affects high speed processing of data points may need to be de-activated or activated, I don't know. Do you know what it would be?

    This program did NOT have any angular change of direction big enough to slow the feed rate so NO algorithm should be in affect. A good control will look ahead for a change in direction of the tool path and adjust the feed rate relative to the coming angle, OR reduce or increase the feed rate depending on an upcoming radius. This is where the algorithm I mentioned comes into play in HSM.

    The better this intelligent algorithmic look ahead the better the results...

    We had a Siemens control participate but, they used an arc fitting utility called CAD COMP that fit an arc through all 24,737 X, Y points. This technique as valuable as it is, does not help us evaluate the Siemens control as to its BPT (see above).
    Besides, the feedback I got from them was they only were able to feed at F40. on a 4" diameter circle. That's not very fast...

    Anyone else out there like to test your CNC machines BPT?

    Let me know,
    Scott

    Scott_bob


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    Ya, we run Matsuura's here with HSM. It would be interesting to see how they match up.



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    Our DMG machine has also a TNC 426 control and this machine is not considered to be an HSM machine. Its best if you could find a machine with a TNC 530i control. This is the type of Heidenhain control used on HSM machines.



  18. #78
    Member Dan B's Avatar
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    We are currently in the final stages of purchasing a 5-axis HSM. We have narrowed our choices down to a DMG DMU 70 evolution with a TNC530i Heidenhain controller or a Hermle C800 U with the same controller.

    The machines seem pretty evenly matched, and I think our choice is going to be determined by the support we hope to receive after the sale.

    Any comments on either of these machines?

    Thanks,

    Dan



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    DMU 70 - thats a nice machine.
    What will you be using it for? We have a DMC 103V and it has run without any serious problems for these last 2 years but its with a TNC 426. The TNC530 should be quite a bit more advanced.



  20. #80
    Member Dan B's Avatar
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    We build checking fixtures for the auto industry, so most, if not all of our jobs have compound angle holes and undercuts. We cut 70% aluminum and 30% steel (40-42 Rc). Most details are less than 200lbs.


    Dan



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