Need Help!- Tool Changer Alarm on HAAS VF2

[jstucken]

I have a 1995 HAAS VF2. Lately I have had problems with the tool changer Alarming out. It pulls up alarm 113( I think). Every time I do a tool change with a tool in the spindle, the Carrusel moves to grab the tool but alarms out after moving about 2 or 3 inches. Then if you do the tool changer restore and take the tool out. Clear the alarm, Then try the tool change with out the tool in spindle it will go ahead and do the tool change. What would be causing this? Do I need to adjust the rollers on the carrusel? Any one else have this problem.

Thanks in advance.

Justin Stuckenschneider

[Hele63]

Originally Posted by jstucken I have a 1995 HAAS VF2. Lately I have had problems with the tool changer Alarming out. It pulls up alarm 113( I think). Every time I do a tool change with a tool in the spindle, the Carrusel moves to grab the tool but alarms out after moving about 2 or 3 inches. Then if you do the tool changer restore and take the tool out. Clear the alarm, Then try the tool change with out the tool in spindle it will go ahead and do the tool change. What would be causing this? Do I need to adjust the rollers on the carrusel? Any one else have this problem. Thanks in advance. Justin Stuckenschneider

Is this a tool changer that shifts side to side? If it is we had the same problem, Check the limit switches on the tool changer there shoud be two of them. I think the one that causes what you are saying is the switch for when it goes to tool change, what happens is that when you tool change the caarusel shifts over to the tool and depresses a limit switch, and then when it shifts back to the carrusel home the limit switch stays depressed and that is what causes it to alarm. alot of coolant buildup makes them gummy and not react fast enough, take some cleaner and make sure it bounces back fast and try again. if it still doesnt work it might just be bad.

Helmut L.

[rrbmachining]

Alarm 113 is a shuttle in fault, the tool changer has failed to travel completely to the right. The time out is controlled by parameters 62 and 63, on mine 62 is set to 400 and 63 to 2000. These equate to time in miliseconds, so check to see what yours are. Otherwise its a case of ensuring the rails the shuttle runs on are clean and lubed, that there is not a build up of swarf in the slot on top of the carousel that the shuttle door retracts into, or as suggested it could be a faulty shuttle in limit switch

[Haas__man]

So to confirm - your tool changer will run all day if you don't put tools in it?
If this is true then it rules out faulty limit switches and problems with rollers or motors.
I would say the problem lies with the tool changer disk itself.
Remove the tool disk (six cap heads in the centre of disk)
Clean the disk and lubricate with WD40.
Check that all finger grippers move and have no sharp burrs.
Re-fit tool disk.

Hope this helps

[haasmanuk]

hey i had the same problem for the last month as in the previous post we have the super speed tool change we changed the perameter 63 to just drop the tool change speed down by 20%. You will not notice this at all and it sounds so much more healthy on the change. The tool changing cam is really complex and this problem usually occurs around 900 000 tool changes.

Just make sure the tool changer has enough lube and there is no seals bust on the tool change post.

Hope this helps

[haastec]

Your problem is most likely one of three options.
1: Sticky tool changer limit switches as earlier stated.
2: Bad tool change relays on the I/O PCB.
3: Worn or sticking motor brushes on the tool changer motor.

1: Clean with WD-40 while cycling them in and out manually.
2: I/O board, lower left corner of cabinet. 4 ice cube looking relays centered vertically approximately. Swap the top 2 with the bottom 2 and see if the problem changes to a different tool changer alarm. If so replace all 4 relays.
3: Inspect the motor brushes for length, carbon build up, or sticking. Clean or replace as needed.

Do not mess with the parameters unless someone has been playing with them recently. If it was working fine in the past, it is most likely mechanical.


Good luck!!

[Masher Mfg]

I'm getting a similar issue on a very high time 1999 VF-2 as well. It has a umbrella 20 tool changer with a permanent magnet DC motor.

The alarm is 115 Turret rotate fault.

What I've noticed is the " Tool in position " bit on the diagnostics screen goes to 0 when the error occurs. I've pulled the motor plate, swapped the tool 1 and tool position limit switches with no change. ( however there are signs the changer was apart sometime in the past so it's possible the switch swap was already done )

Running the motor out of the turret, I can see the motor coasts ever so slightly once the limit sw trips causing the sw to change state. The electric / dynamic braking is working as the motor is stiff to turn in both directions when plugged in but free to turn when it is not. ( The electric / dynamic braking is where the leads of a motor are connected across a resistor, when a PM motor is being turned or coasting is acting as a generator, put a resistor across the wires and it will cause a braking action. The relays haastec listed and the brown ceramic resistors accomplish this. )

If I pull one of the bottom relays I have dynamic braking only in _one_ direction. Reinstall the relay and pull the other and I have braking in only the other direction. It appears that there is a diode in the mix, I wonder if this is breaking down at higher voltages causing it to coast.

I've put a bit of thicker grease in the motor gear box increasing it's drag slightly but no result. I'm thinking of replacing the limit sw but they appear to be obsolete on the general market and it's too late in the day to call my HFO. ( Matsu****a MAC-1 61-2126 ) Motor brushes are about 5/8" long and not sticking.

I'm real tempted to weld a lump on the cam giving it a wider high area making for a larger window.

Is there a coast setting in the computer like the auto door function on our SL30 lathe? Turning the coast down would probably do the trick.

Any other ideas?
Thanks

[haastec]

Masher, I would not recommend permanently altering the tool changer such as "welding a lump". You stated that you removed and replaced one of the tool changer relays, but did you move them around any? Take the top 2 (K9, K10) and exchange them with the bottom 2 (K11, K12). If they are bad, you will probably get some type of shuttle related alarm and the turret rotate alarm will go away. Replace all 4 relays if this is the case. Either way, the relays should be considered wear items and will need replaced at some point depending on use.

[Masher Mfg]

I replaced the 2 lower relays with known good ones from another machine. As before, the motor still coasts past the stop position ( like a degree or two ) only when installed against the tool wheel. ( the inertia is helping it along )

Next step is to replace limit switches, hopefully the replacements will have a later switch time.

As for welding, since there isn't a coast time parameter ( like the auto door on a lathe ) , making the high point longer would accomplish the same result. The tool changer is indexed properly even with the error. Given the action of the tool wheel drive, a degree or two on the drive will give nothing at the spindle.

[Masher Mfg]

Changed the limit switches today, problem is solved. The motor stops at the high spot of the cam and not on the downside as before. While the switches were operating and not sticking, wear caused them to actuate late. Had they been mounted anyway other way, moving them towards the cam would have worked. ( welding on a bump would have done the same thing if the machine was stranded on a desert island. )