Major software design flaw, $500 lesson

[kaibab]

So my CAD software posts program file names according to the file itself, up until now I had always renamed my files because my older VMC refuses to let more than 8 characters be in a file name and it refuses the file if it's larger from even being placed on the hard drive. I got a 2005 VF2SS back in October and it had some programs left on it from the previous owner. All of them were named with longer names 10-25 characters or so. I assumed that Haas was supporting 256 character names like windows has for a decade or more. Especially because the Haas is networked and I just send programs right to the hard drive. Yesterday I sent a file to the machine went over and hit list programs, arrowed down and selected the program. Bam, machined is hosed, I mean completely. No response from the control, on reboot just hangs at the white and red boot screen and says system error. Turns out, and you won't find it in any documentation, that Haas controls only accept up to 32 characters in a file name, any more than that and your machine is finished until a tech completely reloads ALL the software and ALL your parameters. I love this machine, but I am completely amazed that this problem is not addressed or documented....seriously loading a program with 33 characters hoses the machine...$500 for me to discover a major design flaw....unbelievable

[Donkey Hotey]

I guess I'm lost. Haas file names start with the letter "O" and have numbers after them. Are you talking about the comment (within parentheses) after the program number? I've never used a networked Haas control. They can call up regular text filenames that don't start with the conventional Haas naming convention?

[Delw]

I have my post processor set up so when it compiles the machine it uses the part number and name on the computer file name.
for example.

pn23454joeblowsjobfromhellop25

then when you open the program its self its reads

O1234( pn 23454 joe blows job from hell op 25);
T1 M6;
ETC
ETC


then I either use the USB port on the haas to the machine side or it goes on the fadal.
never had any problem yet and I am sure( btu never really counted the charactors) I have some programs over 32 charactors cause times times I am pretty graphic on a particular part number

Is that what your talking about? if so I gotta watch that one.

Delw

[mactec54]

kaibab I think you have more go on that just what you are saying.
as Donkey Hotey has said you should have a number & then anything else should be in parentheses like O7054(& what ever you want to put in here) & each line you have to have (this & this)

or T1M6 (.250EndMill)

The hard drives can cause this problem as well I took mine out because it crashed the system

[TravisR100]

I believe he's talking about the name of the file itself, not the name of the program within the file.

[tobyaxis]

Originally Posted by Delw pn23454joeblowsjobfromhellop25 O1234( pn 23454 joe blows job from hell op 25); T1 M6; ETC ETC Delw

I can't make heads or tails of what kaibab is referring to, but I have Programs Titled like this Delw.

The 32 bit that kaibab might be referring too has to be the File Name. I had the same problem with BobCad many years back if the File Name was too long in characters.

[kaibab]

Originally Posted by TravisR100 I believe he's talking about the name of the file itself, not the name of the program within the file.

This is what I am talking about, thanks for clarifying. The name of the program file can not be longer than 32 characters or your machine is going to have a complete software melt down.

If you put a program file on your machine with a file name larger than 32 characters, press list programs , select program, you just crashed your machine, all software will have to be reloaded. So basically Haas left a major hole in the software that lets an operator hose the controller in 2 button pushes, and offers no solutions.

I just wanted to make you guys aware of the problem, it's pretty lousy that Haas knows about this and provides no documentation or software revision to fix the problem. I'm no software engineer but it seems like an update could provide protection from either transferring large file names to the machine or blocking their selection on the controller. I figure if Haas is going to allow a program file to be transferred to the hard drive and selected for run only to hose the entire machine software set up and all parameters, know about it, provide no warnings, no documentation, and no software updates, they should pay the $500 it cost me to have my HFO come out and fix it. But that will never happen.

[Donkey Hotey]

There is an answer.

[tobyaxis]

I have to agree with Greg. If this is a problem caused by HAAS, it is only fair that they fix it. The least they can do for you is to cut the price a bit.

An unhappy customer will go elsewhere to buy there next CNC.

In the age that a lot of us were born the saying was "The Customer is Always Right". That went down the tubes fast.

[kaibab]

My machine is repaired and I'm up and running. I now am aware of the problem and wanted you guys to be aware also, it sucks to have your machine go down for something so trivial. My HFO came out fast and repaired the machine, I mentioned to the tech "are you going to charge Haas for this?".....his response, "ha, they would laugh at us if we tried. We even eat a bunch of warranty stuff they refuse to cover". I will pay the HFO, I want to have the quick and good service they supply and it's not right that they have to eat the cost of the error in design, but it's not right that I have to. I might contact Haas and plead my case but my bet is it would fall of deaf ears and be ignored and a waste of my time. Anyone know anyone at Haas that would actually give a dam?

[Donkey Hotey]

I have been asked half a dozen times why we didn't get the 'network hard drive' option on the three new machines we just bought. I honestly didn't think it was necessary.

Now I have to imagine what it would have been like if one of a dozen of our potential users had made this mistake. How would I have sold the repair to my upper management. They'd also want to know what kind of POS we bought that could allow such a thing to happen.

As a minimum, I'd expect the file system to truncate the name and add a tilde (~) and distinguishing number on the end, just like older Windoze did when you viewed the files in DOS.

We're talking about a straight labor thing here. They charged a 'profit' rate for something that should not be. That's pretty messed up.

[Delw]

Originally Posted by Delw I have my post processor set up so when it compiles the machine it uses the part number and name on the computer file name. for example. pn23454joeblowsjobfromhellop25 then when you open the program its self its reads O1234( pn 23454 joe blows job from hell op 25); T1 M6; ETC ETC then I either use the USB port on the haas to the machine side or it goes on the fadal. never had any problem yet and I am sure( btu never really counted the charactors) I have some programs over 32 charactors cause times times I am pretty graphic on a particular part number Is that what your talking about? if so I gotta watch that one. Delw

Originally Posted by kaibab This is what I am talking about, thanks for clarifying. The name of the program file can not be longer than 32 characters or your machine is going to have a complete software melt down. If you put a program file on your machine with a file name larger than 32 characters, press list programs , select program, you just crashed your machine, all software will have to be reloaded. So basically Haas left a major hole in the software that lets an operator hose the controller in 2 button pushes, and offers no solutions. I just wanted to make you guys aware of the problem, it's pretty lousy that Haas knows about this and provides no documentation or software revision to fix the problem. I'm no software engineer but it seems like an update could provide protection from either transferring large file names to the machine or blocking their selection on the controller. I figure if Haas is going to allow a program file to be transferred to the hard drive and selected for run only to hose the entire machine software set up and all parameters, know about it, provide no warnings, no documentation, and no software updates, they should pay the $500 it cost me to have my HFO come out and fix it. But that will never happen.

yeah this is what I was talking about I have my cadcam program input the part description as the file name,and I have some very long ones, I did a quick scan of some programs that I have on the home pc and none were over 32 charactors but ran in the high 20's. I will have to check the shop programs now.

Kaibab did they say if this is only due to having a hard drive option?


Your HFO is the same HFO I use, in a few weeks I have them coming over for some warrenty work and software upgrade maybe I will make a long file name and try it while they are here.

Dont be so sure about haas not picking up the tab , not saying they will but they been pretty good on stuff like that from what I heard ( if you go direct to haas)