Newbie- Starting Job tomarrow HAAS owners help.

[Seltzer Customs]

Well today job hunting payed off today I finaly landed myself a job at a small CNC shop. I'm 19 and all I have for Machining experiance is one semester of 101 at my community college. I do plan on expanding this into my carreer and into my own buisness. I don't have much of CNC experiance just through masterCAM in HS. I do have a NC class planned for the spring semester but some info from my teacher says its mostly all by hand learning G/M code, little to no computer work untill future classes. So Looking at the componey I'll be working with I found they have 3 HAAS mills. A VF2, VFO, and a TL2 Lathe. I'm looking for info to help me understand thease machines and most of all looking for advice on how I should aproach coming into a shop leaning machines I have no experance with. Looking for good questions to ask and good advice on learning the machines. Thanks

[Delw]

dont take this wrong, I have hired quite a few kids and trained quite a few kids in the past heres the best advise I can give you.

LISTEN AND WATCH keep your mouth shut about what you know,how it works in MC or on a pc or what you can do in MC or on a pc.
Nothing will get you fired faster than a know it all kid especially one who has never run machines but thinks he is a programming whiz.

I have had a 12 year old (my daughter)that could run smartcam and actually make workable programs, She learned the program faster than I did. at 10 she could program hitachi lathes in the multiseikos control from a blue print, she was actually doing it when she was 6. My youngest is 9 she is playing with bobcad. I bought it it sucks so I dont use it, its on an extra pc.

What I am getting at, is kids are smart as crap on computers and programming you learn quick, however there is NOTHNG that replaces machine experiance. the best programmers in the world that have no machining experiance are USELESS in a job shop.

at your age hopefully they will teach you how to run a hand lathe and hand mill, that right there is the best experiance you can get, if they offer it do it, do it before you ever touch a CNC in 2-4 years you will think back this guy on cnc zone was right.
Learn everything you can that has absolutely nothing to due with CNC's or computers 1st. learn trig, learn how to set up and make fixtures. when you do run CNCS learn everything you can from set-ups to figuring out how to cut a part( this is were the hand machine experiance comes into play)

I know the big thing is running cnc's its not that big of a deal trust me, you just push a button and thats it, ANYONE can do it, if you learn the manual machines(if given the chance) thats were your experiance will come into play, then you can be trusted to play with a 80-200k cnc machine.
some of the kids that I worked with back in the early 90's are pretty damn good machinest they have very good jobs today as programmers and one is even running a very big shop. When I hired him at a old shop I worked with for a summer job I made him run hand machines for ever he hated it and hated me( but he needed a job) A few years ago I ran into him and he told me what he was doing and who he was working for. I was pretty damn impressed cause I figured he would have dropped out of the industry myself.

Remember employers know what they want new hires to due, The dont want to be told me an employee what the Employee wants to do. liten to them as most shop owners are very smart people and you can learn alot from them. Hit up the old guys while there a tad stubborn and can be real pricks, they been around for a long time and you can learn a ton from them, same with with inspectors, these guys know parts learn every inspection technique you can, all the old school formulas etc etc..

Good luck with your job

Delw

[offsetxyz]

I have 32 years as a machinist. Only one on a CNC.

The best thing you can do is listen and take plenty of NOTES. Read the operator's manuel again and again if you can. The first time you will not know what they are talking about. After a month it will make sense.

Write down feeds and speeds and learn about SFM. Learn about keeping tools short and setups tight. Learn to read the blue prints. Observe how parts are created and why they are made in the way they are made. Check your work. Check it twice. Keep your area clean. Keep your machine clean and by all means deburr your work and handle finsihed parts with care. The operation of the machine is the easiest part.

Don't be afraid to ask questions.

However the best way to impress your boss and keep your job is to keep that spindle turning and keep your mouth closed. That means no goofing off and visiting with co-workers. Save that for break time.

[HuFlungDung]

Originally Posted by Seltzer Customs Well today job hunting payed off today I finaly landed myself a job at a small CNC shop. I'm 19 and all I have for Machining experiance is one semester of 101 at my community college. I do plan on expanding this into my carreer and into my own buisness. I don't have much of CNC experiance just through masterCAM in HS. I do have a NC class planned for the spring semester but some info from my teacher says its mostly all by hand learning G/M code, little to no computer work untill future classes. So Looking at the componey I'll be working with I found they have 3 HAAS mills. A VF2, VFO, and a TL2 Lathe. I'm looking for info to help me understand thease machines and most of all looking for advice on how I should aproach coming into a shop leaning machines I have no experance with. Looking for good questions to ask and good advice on learning the machines. Thanks

Haas has a website. The manuals are on there.......

[CNCRim]

Well, Everything will be tough at first, the scrappy job in the shop will be your. But hey do everything at your best and keep open mind learn everything you can. Check your part with caution make sure it is what the print ask, beginner miss number all the time 'cause not used to it yet. Normally, it take roughly about years and half to have a good knowlege setup and start to do thing on own, but there are always something to absorb regardless how many years of a person experience.

[Delw]

Oh yeah buy a machinest hand book. Bring it every were you go its like the Bible for machine shops. I grabbed mine out this morning as I have a bunch of formulas you will use in your begining years. I will post some handly formulas tomorrow for you if I swing by the shop.

Delw

[Seltzer Customs]

Thanks guys ya I keep my trig book and Starrett tap and drill chart in my back pocket. Nailed the job today so I'm starting Monday doing some grinding for them. Also I'm going to need some general machinest tools to have of my own so what are the basic tools of the trade you think I will need. I'm really trying to do my homework about the shop and whats instore. I did remember to make sure to inform the owner I only have basic simple skills all being on manual mills, lathes and grinders so my skills arent yet devolped to be operateing CNC but CNC is a skill I'm striving to learn. I realy hope all goes well and I apreaciate all of your info. Thanks again

[dertsap]

Originally Posted by Seltzer Customs I'm going to need some general machinest tools to have of my own so what are the basic tools of the trade you think I will need.

best thing for you to do is ask some of the guys on the floor what they are using , every place is different and if your doing small parts or large parts then the necessity changes

as far as advise goes I would suggest you put your head down and your nose to the grind stone , if they give you step by step instruction then follow those steps , if you find a way to improve a process then suggestions are always welcome but if the idea gets shot down then don't take it personal or continue to push it . If they are the type of company that isn't open to any ones suggestions then learn what you can then move on ( its a dead end job) .

you are learning this for yourself and your reputation so learn by your mistakes and stand up when you do mess up and tell the boss when he asks what happened that you screwed up , no one likes excuses or finding out that things didn't happen as you say they did , and it is expected that the new guy will screw up at some point or other

you'll find that most guys are more than willing to show a guy new tricks ,and as for the few guys who won't then just ignore them ,generally their stupid and scared , you will know more than them within a couple of years anyhow

[offsetxyz]

The 0-1 mic is the most used mic of all. You will use it 100 times more than any other. Get a good one. Also used are th 6" scale, a travel dial indicator and base, a test indicator (BestTest or Lastword or Testatast) and some calipers. Other tools like larger mics, longer scales, edge finders etc. will depend on your work. If you aim to make this a career build a good set of tools over time. Starting with the basics and following with speciality tools you find useful. If CNC's are in your future some good edge finders and test indicators are a must.

Do not think CNC machines are above you. They are not. Many people spend years running them and could not make apart to save their own neck. They are called operators and not machinsts. The best machinsits and set up men learn everything they can and get paid for what they learn. There is so much more to learn than the machine. It just takes time to get the experience. It cannot be rushed too much. Two years doing a variety of things and paying attention and you can work in most any shop, any where.

Its all about how to make a good part. How to stop egg, warping, vibration, extend tool life, increase metal removal rates. How to hold a tolerance, how to make a part when it almost certain it cannot be done. The best tool for the job, the right coolant, the right machine. Its about documentation so that the next guy can do what you did. Its about quality, cost, and customer satisfaction. On a CNC learn how to edit programs, troubleshoot unproven programs and eventaully write them too.

You learn half of this and you will be far ahead of 80% of your co-workers.

Take this grinding you are about to do and learn everything about it there is to know. Dependng on the grinder a well dressed rock is key to a good finish and smooth cutting action. Just do as they tell you and keep that rock working and put the parts on the floor and they will find room for you in that shop. Hard work and some apparent inteligence can take you right to their top jobs in very short order.

[Delw]

Heres some of those common formulas I was telling you about that are worth having.
Granted these are used if there is NO call out on a print, they are pretty much standards.

to find a thread relief width up against a shoulder
1.5x decimal lead

to find the max major dia of a numbered thread, Ie 4-40 8-32 10-24 etc etc
#x13+60
example 4x13+60 = the 4-40 major dia

to find decimal lead
1/20(threads per inch) = .050(decimal lead)

metric always use a 5 place decimal or more for your most accurate reading.
.03937 x (metric callout) = Inch
25.4 x (Inch callout) = Metric


Surface footage to RPM and RPM to surface footage
(rpm x Cutting dia)/ 3.8 = Surface footage
(surface footage / Cutting dia) x 3.8 = Rpm

to find the max and min root radius of a thread
Decimal Lead / 8 = max root rad.
Decimal lead / 24 = Min root rad.

single thread depth
lead x .64952
this will help you find where your chamfer dia should start for a thread

Again these are only to be used if there is NO special call out. Write them down in your machist handbook as they come in very handy especially on lathes when you dont have specific call outs.

Maybe someone could throw some more handy forumlas to have

Delw

[Delw]

Originally Posted by Seltzer Customs Monday doing some grinding for them.

Learn all the grinding stuff you can, Centerless ,od ID even thread grinding if avail.
that will help you in the future and you wont piss grinders off when you start your own shop and send work to them.
Plus anyone can do cnc work, good grinders are hard to find.

Delw

[The CNC Noob]

I have learned over the last few years also not to let mastercam do all the programming for you. You will forget some useful shortcuts and mastercam likes to give you 25 lines of code when it could be done in 5. That makes a simple at machine edit become more of a challenge. I started on a surface grinder about 12 years ago and now run 3 haas hs1 mills and 1 hl2 lathe and actually went to school for industrial electricity but the local job market put into the machinist trade. Just enjoy what you do.