VF-2 or VF-2SS

[Alex VF]

Hello everybody,

I am thinking of purchasing a new Haas VMC model VF-2 (10.000 rpm) or the VF-2SS and my question is whether it is worth to spend more money on the VF-2SS. I mostly machine aluminum (99%) and currently I am working with a VF-1 (1995 model, 75000 rpm) and a VF-0 (1995 model, 75000 rpm) and they meet my demands very well but I just wish I had more rpm.

Could also somebody explain me the differences between the VF-2 and VF-2YT models (expect the Y travel)?

Does anybody know whether the chip auger, programmable coolant nozzle and coolant tank are standard on each machine or are they optional? I checked out the Haas website but I thought these options come standard with each machine. Is "Spindle Orientation" an extra as well?

Any help would be very much appreciated.


Alex

[Matt@RFR]

The only complaint about the SS machines that I've seen is that the course pitch ball screws make it difficult to get good finishes on 3D work. I have an '07 VF-2ss, and have done enough 3D parts to know that it finishes just fine. No, it won't put a finish on a part like a high dollar machine, but I think you know that allready.

When I was comparing a VF2 to the SS model, I found that by the time I got all the options on the VF2 that I wanted, the SS machine was actually less expensive. For your information, I got package D, which includes TSC, probing and 4th axis. I couldn't be happier with it! It's great for prototypes AND medium production.

The chip auger, programmable coolant, 55gal tank and spindle orient were all standard on mine.

[Alex VF]

Hi Matt,

Thank you very much for the information, it is helpful to me. Indeed, you are right, if you want some options on the VF-2 it will be more expensive than a SS machine. By the way, do you know the differences between the VF-2SS and the VF2-SSYT (beside the Y travel)?

[Matt@RFR]

Well, the YT table is also bigger at 18" wide, and the machine is 400 pounds heavier. I think those are the only differences, but I've not seen one or researched them so I'm only going to by the website spec sheet.

Do a search on here for a thread about a VF-3YT that had problems with finishes.

[Geof]

There has been some discussion about poor finishes on both the SS and the YT and I think it is a combination of faster rapids, i.e. higher lead ballscrews, and in the case of the YT the spindle hanging further out from the column. My diagnosis of what happens when these machines are run at their capacity is that the column flexes and the head nods when an axis accelerates; not much but enough to see little traceries in the surface finish that fade away as the nodding diminishes. I while back I played around with my VF2 which does create the same thing, but to a negligible extent, and it was more pronounced with Y axis motion than Z axis. To me this seemed logical because the Y axis accelerates a larger mass in a direction that would enhance the nodding. The point is if you back off on the feeds for finish cuts the nodding is greatly reduced so you can get faster roughing, and greater travel for the YT, and still compensate for the minor deficiency.

[Delw]

Originally Posted by Alex VF Hello everybody, I am thinking of purchasing a new Haas VMC model VF-2 (10.000 rpm) or the VF-2SS and my question is whether it is worth to spend more money on the VF-2SS. I mostly machine aluminum (99%) and currently I am working with a VF-1 (1995 model, 75000 rpm) and a VF-0 (1995 model, 75000 rpm) and they meet my demands very well but I just wish I had more rpm. Could also somebody explain me the differences between the VF-2 and VF-2YT models (expect the Y travel)? Does anybody know whether the chip auger, programmable coolant nozzle and coolant tank are standard on each machine or are they optional? I checked out the Haas website but I thought these options come standard with each machine. Is "Spindle Orientation" an extra as well? Any help would be very much appreciated. Alex

Alex, if I had to do it all over again it would be a vf3ss or a vf2ssyt , I am not complainng one bit about the vf2ss,the only think I dont like about it is the tool changer with long parts and having a 4th axis on it, my fadal I can move all the way to the right to change tools and not have a possibility of hitting the 4th axis fixture.

of coarse the work I have gotten is always a tad to big for the small machine ( one reaosn I am glad I kept my 4020 fadal)

the tool changer on the vf2ss is out of this world fast. the speeds with the 12k spindle allows you to feed extreamly fast for roughing operations.

A few things I wish HAAS would fix, is the left hand door, when its closed the rail door slide has holes in it, facing always fills them up with chips and cleaning them out is a pain in the ass.

the spray bar behind the Y ways( colum of machine) needs to be add'd to each side of the machine as well to keep chips shooting down to the auger.

The Way covers on the X axis is 2" too close to the side doors( they have about a 1/8" clearance if that). chips build up and bind on the doors and constantly needs to be cleaned out or it will scratch the doors up pretty bad and bulge the sheet metal out. ( mainly due to face milling.)

the p-coolant box is too big and too low and its tricky with a 4th axis and short tool holders.

2000rpms makes a huge difference in how fast you can cut alum, I didnt think it would and WOW it flies compared to my fadal on cutting speeds. especially on very small endmills 1/32-3/16
I got a new vf2ss in july it has every option including the 5th axis drive, we just didnt get the 5th axis table got a 4th instead due to the 33k price tag and really no need for it, but would have been a fun toy.


as far as finish on 3d work, I have found I have to slow up 10-15% on the feed rate to get the exact same finish as my fadal(same RPMS). why I dont have a clue but Matt may be on to something. it would seem a 75IPM is 75IPM no matter what machine its on. I was thinking it was tool holders but I am running quality ones (Kenmetal). also thinking the problem was the direct drive spindle motor and the head weight as to the finish problems, along with vibration. with the older haas and fadals you have a belts or a gear box running the spindle.
the finish issue isnt something most would notice, I can still get a mirror finish I want with the same step over, I just have to slow it up a tad rpms make up for it and the roughing definately makes up for the time on the finish.

I would buy another one tomorrow and wouldnt think twice about it. but it would be a vf3ss or a vf3ssyt


add'd:
Don't get the 15K spindle unless you plan on only doing alum worm and light work at that, we looked into it but after talking to the techs at haas they didnt reccomend it for our applications. the 15k spindle runs a ceramic bearing, dont get me wrong there great machines but if you are a job shop and need to throw in some steel or stainless your going to hurt your bearings if you take a normal cut. the 12k bearings are normal bearings.

[treg]

i got the vm 2 much better deal and no coarse ball screw. machine rules!!!

[murphdog]

Hello,
I have a 99-VF2 & a 08-VF4. Purchased both new. My opinion is that if you need the larger work envelope then buy the larger machine. If you are in a job shop enviroment there will always be that job that is 2 inches to long. If you have specific work I would buy the machine that fits the job. The one thing I dont like about my VF4 compared to my VF2 is leaning into the machine doing setup and cleaning. The 4 is considerably deeper. Thats one drawback to a larger machine. I would suggest springing for the side mount changer as it is considerably faster than the umbrella PLUS it gets the tools out of the envelope. If running aluminum and/or smaller tools I am sure that the SS machine would be a big plus. Between the increased spindle speeds, meaning faster feeds, and the faster sidemount changer I am sure that cycle times could be significantly reduced. We have noticed several seconds difference between the umbrella on the VF2 & the sidemount VF4 on the same program. My VF2 now runs only specific aluminum parts. When it gets replaced it will be with a VF2SS.
Murph

[Alex VF]

Thank you guys for your input. I am starting having a clear picture now. I also would like to ask about the High-Speed Machining with Look-Ahead; what does this do exactly and would be helpful, or it needs to be combined with linear scales to achieve higher accuracy and faster machining?

[tobyaxis]

Originally Posted by Matt@RFR Well, the YT table is also bigger at 18" wide, and the machine is 400 pounds heavier. I think those are the only differences, but I've not seen one or researched them so I'm only going to by the website spec sheet. Do a search on here for a thread about a VF-3YT that had problems with finishes.

I'd go with the SS too.

I have seen a VF-3YT and have shots of one in my Profile Pics on here, but you don't see the VF-3YT designation. It looks very solid and Machines like an Animal being a CAT50 Machine.

I'd still stick with the SS though.

[murphdog]

Alex,
The high speed machining & look ahead are supposed to be benifical for 3D machining. I am not sure exactly what linear scales do, I think improve accuracy. Cooridnate rotation and scaling work great for moving the program to fit a casting better. The WIPS option is also VERY nice. No more edge finders, no more measuring resharps, and it is super with probing a castings location. Be sure and ask about packages. When you start bunching options together they get more reasonable. Talk with your dealer.
Murph

[Geof]

The Haas High Speed Machining option is useful when a program has many abrupt direction changes. The way I understand it the controller looks ahead and when it sees a sharp corner ahead it moderates the feed rather than ramming into the corner at full speed and overshooting slightly or shaking with the sudden decceleration and acceleration. As far as I know it does not need to be combined with linear scales, what it does is help the machine attain its regular accuracy and precision at higher feed rates.


Incidentally it is easy to get confused between Haas High Speed Machning and High Speed Machining which uses for high SFM, small DOC and stepover, with high feed rates for machining hard materials; the names are the same but there is no connection between the two.