Haas VF4SS

[chevdrgtrk]

hey everyone, I'm looking at possibly buying a used Haas VF4SS what do I need to be looking for on this machine? were does it break at, wear spots etc...I have only seen pics of it, but I will let you guys know the details when I can see it in person, and possibly get a price I should offer.

[samhyto]

We have a VF4SS, The only thing I can really say negative about the SS, is the High Speed Tool Changer. Yeah, its cool seeing a tool change in the blink of an eye. But at what cost? Our 4 is the oldest SS in the shop (4yrs) and the tool retaining mechanisms have some hard wear and stick intermittently. The tool arm then becomes a pitching machine with your tools. To prevent this from happening on our other 2 SS machines, we flagged all tools as heavy, and this reduces the tool changer arm speed to 25% during the tool change. The last shop I worked in had and older vf with the sidemount tool changer (not the high speed one), and it had 400k+ tool changes with no problems.

If your spindle is the 12k or 15k, remember that you will need balanced tool holders for operation above 10k.

As far as valuation, how old is it? What envronment was it used in...if it was used to do hard machining, graphite, or other abrasive/abusive work, that will reduce its value alot. What other options does it have....hard drive+ethernet, high intensity lighting, auto-door, 4/5th axis wiring, etc.

Sam

[omy005]

Our 4yr old VF2SS has done over 1,300,000 tool changes all at 100% and has never let a tool go out of the arm.

Andrew.

[chevdrgtrk]

well apparantly, someone got to it before I did, I got a call saturday saying that it was sold......well, on with the search I know I want a HAAS VF4, just one to get in town, and at a reasonable price. (no financing just want to pay cash, and be done with it)

[crabbass]

omy005
you have a lot of 5 axis equipment! Are you simultaneous milling in 5 axis on all of these machines or using them for multiple operations/setup? I only ask because I don't think there are too many companies using Haas machines for high end production 5 axis work (like impellers and turbine blades) correct me if I am wrong.

[makingchips]

Originally Posted by crabbass omy005 you have a lot of 5 axis equipment! Are you simultaneous milling in 5 axis on all of these machines or using them for multiple operations/setup? I only ask because I don't think there are too many companies using Haas machines for high end production 5 axis work (like impellers and turbine blades) correct me if I am wrong.

I do high end simultaneous milling in 5 axis for production.

MC

[crabbass]

Originally Posted by makingchips I do high end simultaneous milling in 5 axis for production.

Is It all aluminum work? I cannot imagine a Haas with linear guides try to compete with rigid box way machines milling Titanium, Inconel, and other exotic high temperature alloys.

[omy005]

Originally Posted by crabbass omy005 you have a lot of 5 axis equipment! Are you simultaneous milling in 5 axis on all of these machines or using them for multiple operations/setup?

A few years ago we did simultaneous work with tool steel dies for our foundry. The quality of work that was produced suitable the purpose. Now we only use them for multi operations (3+2 type work) with brass forgings for water control valves. They are the best value machine for the type or work we do. Japanese or Euro machines cost $100K or so more for no real discernible advantage in the end product we make. That is why we use HAAS machines and will continue to do so.

Andrew.

[makingchips]

Originally Posted by crabbass Is It all aluminum work? I cannot imagine a Haas with linear guides try to compete with rigid box way machines milling Titanium, Inconel, and other exotic high temperature alloys.

Mostly SS and TS but I do get a titanium and yes some aluminum jobs from time to time with the same results. The Haas blows away our DMU 80T. Now with that said, I believe the linear scales have a lot to do with it. I just had it ball bar tested during its yearly calibration schedule through Haas it was .000174 circularity on a 5.905650 radius. Also a lot to the accuracy is the roughing and finishing approach. During roughing I use large tools and all of the 30HP leaving .02-.03 above finish. During finishing I keep the chip load around .003 per tooth. I have yet to have a part CMM above or below .0015 +- .003 from nominal all day every day. Most of my parts are +-.005 If I had too, with a little effort I believe I could get much better results. I’ll cross that bridge when I come to it.
Did I mention I don't get tool chatter with my linear guided machine That is my biggest gripe when I hear people say "you must get chatter because it's not rigid" I always tell them you get chatter because you’re doing something wrong.

Box ways have their place if you’re looking to hold +-.0001 then I say spend the extra 300K it will pay off in the end. I have seen some impressive A55 and my centers that can do some very tight work that you would not even think about on a HAAS. But bang for the buck HAAS wins hands down, their sales show it.

MC