Probing Question

[TravisR100]

As per Geof on my last thread, here's my next question. I have the Renishaw probing system. If I go to set tool lengths and diameters everything works fine as long as I have the tool type set to endmill or shell mill. When set this way, the spindle moves down rapidly to within about 4". It slows down and moves to within about 1/2". It then turns on the spindle and continues down very slowly until the cutter touches the probe. No problems.

If I set the tool type to a center drill however, it moves down rapidly to within about 4". It slows down and continues moving down but never does the next slow speed at 1/2". It just buries right down on top of the probe and never spins the tool. The probe seems to have about 3/8" of an inch of downward travel before it would break. I've tried it twice and both times hit estop after it pushed it down a little less than 1/4".

Am I doing something wrong here? It's actually an odd little tool that I'm trying to measure. It's a 90 degree v-point tool that's used for milling, center drilling (odd angle I know), chamfering, etc. It's 1/4" in diameter. Should I be entering this tool as an end mill or center drill?

Even if I were using a true center drill it would seem I'd have the same problem with this thing burying the cutter into the probe.

[behindpropeller]

Originally Posted by TravisR100 As per Geof on my last thread, here's my next question. I have the Renishaw probing system. If I go to set tool lengths and diameters everything works fine as long as I have the tool type set to endmill or shell mill. When set this way, the spindle moves down rapidly to within about 4". It slows down and moves to within about 1/2". It then turns on the spindle and continues down very slowly until the cutter touches the probe. No problems. If I set the tool type to a center drill however, it moves down rapidly to within about 4". It slows down and continues moving down but never does the next slow speed at 1/2". It just buries right down on top of the probe and never spins the tool. The probe seems to have about 3/8" of an inch of downward travel before it would break. I've tried it twice and both times hit estop after it pushed it down a little less than 1/4". Am I doing something wrong here? It's actually an odd little tool that I'm trying to measure. It's a 90 degree v-point tool that's used for milling, center drilling (odd angle I know), chamfering, etc. It's 1/4" in diameter. Should I be entering this tool as an end mill or center drill? Even if I were using a true center drill it would seem I'd have the same problem with this thing burying the cutter into the probe.

It should ask you an approximate length of the tool before you check it with the toolsetter. If you are NOT putting in a value it might be referencing the current toollength already set up in the offsets, which might be inccorect.

Tim

[TravisR100]

It does indeed ask for the approximate length of the tool and I do enter it. I even tried making it a 1/2" longer than the approximate length just to be sure. No difference. With all the same settings if I simply specify it's an endmill instead of a center drill it works fine.

[behindpropeller]

Check this setting:

One settting is for when using the tool setter, I can't find which way it is supposed to be right now.

64 - T. OFS Meas Uses Work
This setting changes the way the Tool Ofset Mesur (Tool Offset Measure) button works. When this is On, the
entered tool offset will be the measured tool offset plus the work coordinate offset (Z-axis). When it is Off, the
tool offset equals the Z machine position

[TravisR100]

Hmm... I'm not sure that would mean anything with the probing routine itself though. Again, it works fine if I tell it the tool type is an endmill.

[crabbass]

Are you using IPS or are you getting the probe routines from the visual quick code? Defining the tools as endmills, shellmills, or c-drills, etc is only a way for the controll to know where the longest point of the tool is. Endmills and shell mills must be measured at their radial tips, as the center of the cutter is relieved (this is why the spindle rotates), whereas drills, centerdrills, taps, engraving tools, (anything smaller in diameter than the flat spot on the tool probe stylus) can be measured accurately on centerline without the spindle rotating. The centerline measurement is performed at a much higher feed because it is not at risk of jamming the tool down in between two flutes that are rotating. It also does not stop .5" above from the tip before executing or ask for a rough length because it is in "skip" from machine Z zero untill it recieves a tool probe signal.
If you are new to CNC and are learning by trial and error, Cool. My only advice is DO NOT bother with haas IPS. It IMO it is not intuitive, G-code is simple, there is alot to initialy memorize but once you have it figured out, you have learned the language that most all CNC equipment uses. You need to be able to understand the code anyways just to be a competent operator.

[JohnJW]

Originally Posted by TravisR100 It just buries right down on top of the probe and never spins the tool. The probe seems to have about 3/8" of an inch of downward travel before it would break. I've tried it twice and both times hit estop after it pushed it down a little less than 1/4".

I use the probe to set the length of my chamfering tool (1/8") as well and I think I just entered it as a endmill and touch off the tool using the haas macro and then I manually vary the diameter and z depth for the chamfer depth.

I thought as soon as the tool tip makes contact with the tool off set probe, the spindle will stop the downward move. Did you notice any indication, ie beeps or flashing leds, that the tool made contact with the tool probe?

[TravisR100]

Crabass, thanks for the detailed response. I'm pretty new to CNC in general and completely new to the Haas machine and control. I'm not using the IPS system. I'm doing this probing by simply going to the tool offsets table, setting the approximate length and diameter, then telling it to probe the selected tool. My understanding is that behind the scenes it's using the same macro calls no matter where the probing is started from; be it the offset tables, an IPS screen, or VQC. I'm not even sure what VQC is since my mill doesn't have it. I'm a computer programmer so I've got no issue with writing G code. The code itself seems relatively basic.

Endmills and shell mills must be measured at their radial tips, as the center of the cutter is relieved (this is why the spindle rotates), whereas drills, centerdrills, taps, engraving tools, (anything smaller in diameter than the flat spot on the tool probe stylus) can be measured accurately on centerline without the spindle rotating. The centerline measurement is performed at a much higher feed because it is not at risk of jamming the tool down in between two flutes that are rotating. It also does not stop .5" above from the tip before executing or ask for a rough length because it is in "skip" from machine Z zero untill it recieves a tool probe signal.

This makes perfect sense. I would still think that it would stop almost as soon as the tool made contact with the probe however. It's pushing the probe down a good 1/8" to 1/4" before I get too nervous and hit he estop. Maybe I'm simply not letting it push far enough down. I am giving it an approximate length in the offset table before starting the probing cycle. You're saying I shouldn't do that or don't have to do that on a tool type with an included angle?

JohnJW, there are definitely no beeps but I didn't think to look at the lights on the probe. I'll have to go back and try again and pay more attention to that.

Crabass, I do notice that after hitting estop that I get some error that pops up that relates to a skip signal. Something like "skip signal not present." I only notice this after pressing the estop button however so that may be a normal error when hitting estop on a probing routine. I'm not in front of the machine so can't go back and look up the exact error. I'll try it again tonight and try to write to it down.

[Delw]

I never entered any date in for the tools except for the face mill as and the probe as being a heavy tool, this way the tool change doesnt go at 100% it gooes something like 25%

when you use the probe with the software provided, you hit mdi then cursor over the the far right vb tab, hit write/input/enter(forget the name exactly) bottom right of the key board.
a screen will come up with lots of utilities. then hit "F1"this will bring your probing screen up.
third one down is the toool setting screen.
hit set z in what ever instance you want, there are 3 for setting tool heights single all and you pick the tools.
enter your fixture offset number
hit input( bottom right button again)
then a screen will come up for some stuff scroll down to save to mdi hit input.
then hit the start button.

the tool will first rapid to the x and y cordinates of the toolsetter, then rapid down at a slow rapid hit the setter, back off and hit it again slower, then back off and hit it again even slower ( 3 times total).
then it will rapid up at what ever rapid speed you have picked on your rapid over ride buttons.

you dont need to bring the z height to .4 on tool settings ( at least I havent) except on face mills onlyas you need to postition the x and y for a insert.

one note if you hit feed hold on the macro you must hit reset then back the z off and run the macro all over again, as hitting the feed hold button will give you errors. you will get errors if you hit feed hold and or estop in the middle of the macro program.

I reset my z depths on all my tools every 2 days after my spindle warm up. or when I am running steel or stainless I reset set them every day and sometimes more.

That probe takes a while to get comfortable with it.
the only time the spindle moves for me is when I am using the spindle probe to touch off bores ids and z depths. the spindle probe also only hits the part 2 times unlike the tool setter which is 3 times.


Delw

[TravisR100]

Just an update. My HAAS sales guy tried to duplicate the problem I was having at the local HFO. They couldn't duplicate it because they don't have a machine with software as new as what I have. They're using 16.03 or 16.04. I've got 16.06. So, they sent the tech out. Apparently being able to set the tool offsets with the probe from directly within the tool offset table is new with 16.06. At any rate, the tech came out, I went through the same process, and low and behold, it worked just fine with him standing there. We tried it several times both from the tool offset table as well as from the IPS screens. Each time it worked fine. Very weird. I did nothing differently nor did I change anything from my prior attempts when it didn't work correctly and was trying to snap my probe off.

I hadn't yet posted about yet another issue with probing the workpiece. When the tech was out originally he calibrated the work probe using his calibration bar and going through the proper procedure. When I tried to make a cut however all cuts were happening about 3/4" above the workpiece. I figured I was doing something wrong and was pulling my hair out over this. I mentioned this problem to the sales guy as well when I called them yesterday. As it turns out the system entered the calibration bar length instead of the probe length into my offset table. I don't see how this could have been a mistake on the part of the tech since it's an automatic process. Indeed he told me that when he and my sales guy went through the process at the local HFO last night they had the same problem. The first time they went through the process the system entered the calibration bar length as opposed to the probe length in the offset table when setting up the probe. Running through the procedure a second time ended up with the probe length in the offset table as it should have been. They're thinking that it must be a bug in the software. That's two machines (theirs and mine) where they've had to go through the probe setup procedure twice in order to get it to properly enter the probe length in the offset table.

[Delw]

well good thing your didnt use my post cause its F2 not f1, my head wasnt screwed on right this morning

[crabbass]

Obviously there is more than one way to kill cats.
Like you mentioned, all of these methods of running the spindle probe and tool setting probes are called from the same macro programs. These programs are In your controll numbered O9***. There is a setting that will allow you to see these or hide them. These programs were created by Renishaw, not HAAS, so you wont find much detail on all of the different routines that you have in your manuals.
I am not familiar with your newer software, but when I use the probe(s) to set tool length or work offsets initially, I write the code in MDI (If I forget I use the VQC to write the code to MDI). The VQC has graphic representations of each routine, and explains the variable adresses.
I'm not at the machine but for instance when using the tool centerline measuring routine the MDI code only calls the routine and one variable (T #)
The macro program will automaticly return z to home, change the tool, position the X,and Y over the tool probe CL and run a Z-skip (three times)

To measure an endmills length the code calls the routine and three variables,
(T#) (tool diameter) (approximate length)
this program will also z home, change to that tool(if not already in spindle), position over x, and Y (but this routine shifts the tools CL by the radius of the tool diameter). It also uses a rapid Z- move to a safe distance above the tool setter (about 4 inches) then a feed to .4" above the probe tip, then it runs a z-skip twice.(while rotating CCW) (I have tried to reverse this when someone asked me what I would do if using a CCW cutter, with no luck. Oh well because it has been a long time and on very rare instances where I needed a ccw endmill)

All of the probe cycles when measuring (skip) are feed, not rapid (you need to have the feedrate override at 100% to accurately calibrate and use your probes)

This should help you understand what the controll is telling the machine to do. Now all you need to do Is tell It what you want it to do. BULL **** IN-BULL **** OUT.