Thinking of switching to Haas

[Bwana Don]

I've been looking at the Haas MDC-500 to replace one of our older machines. I am used to Fadal or Fanuc programming so my questions are;

a) What is the learning curve like going from Fadal format 2 & Fanuc M code G code to the Haas?

B) What can I expect from their service department (North Detroit Suburbs)? They are selling me hard on their service/up-time and that has been our downfall.

Any feedback will be appreciated. Thanks in advance for your help. The Haas salesman is taking me over to Macomb Community College to play on some of their cnc's to see how I like them. Still would like some feedback from you CNC guys though.

Don

[anemachinebc]

We are currently in the market for 3 new machines, 2 VMC and one HMC. We bought a new EC-400 PP machine from HAAS in 2007 and it has been the biggest piece of S#$% ive ever ran, except for the HAAS SL20 lathe we have. It has been down for service at least 25 times in the 20 months that we have had it. I usually end up fixing it myself, because we cant afford to wait for the techs to come up (usually 2-3 working days then if they need a part another 2-3 days). We are in central pa. If you do buy a HAAS get the extended warranty its well worth it. Our runs out in 2 months, then the real battle begins.

Im not impressed with the warranty service at all. If you have a machine out of warranty they are fixing your machine that day, if its under warranty then they will fit you in, because they are not making any money. We are looking at either milltronics or mazak for the VMC's and just mazak for the HMC. Just for fun we got a quote from HAAS and they wanted us to buy 3 of their machines to get the performance of 2 mazaks. Price per machine the HAAS was 13,000 cheaper...i would rather spend 13k to get twice the machine. Factor in the 3rd HAAS and the price was 92k over the price of 2 mazaks.

As far as controls go, they are pretty good. It is HAAS's rip off of a Fanuc control minus the soft keys. They are really easy to learn, and have little gliches with them. Its too bad Okuma cant have a control like a HAAS, they have great machines but their control are garbage.

This is just my experience with HAAS, we have another EC-400 (2004) and it is a pretty good machine, minus the boards we had to replace, TSC couplers (usually last only about 4 months at $600. a pop), and the regen went out once and started a fire. Other than that it runs good.

[Bwana Don]

The salesman (Haas) here in Detroit told me "average response time is .8 days" and "85% of the time when the tech leaves your machine will be up and running".

He also said they carry over $60,000 worth of parts on their truck.

I would complain to Haas about the response time. I think it's mandated from California the response time be under 1 day. This is the sales pitch I'm getting here anyway.

Our Kitamura has been bullet proof for ten years. It needed a spindle rebuild and ever since the machine runs half the time. Coincidently the Fadal service company now sells and services Kitamura. Now my Kit runs like a Fadal!

CNC Tech's can make or break the machine company. Complain to headquarters and keep a log too. Squeaky gear get's the lube.

Thanks for the input.

[anemachinebc]

We have complained to California, it does no good. The Tech's are pretty good, except when they just start changing parts. The problem is our factory outlet, i guess we arent the only ones who have problems with them.

On our machines that our out of warranty we have a guy who comes in to fix the stuff i cant or dont have time.

I just cant wait to get a machine other than a HAAS. I just havent had good luck with them.

[Geof]

Originally Posted by anemachinebc We have complained to California, it does no good. .....

There is a member on CNCzone called Haas Apps and in real life he is an applications manager at Haas Automation. He posted this message in the thread I have linked below;

Please call me.
Wayne Reilly
Applications Manager
Haas Automation Inc.
805-278-8560

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showth...129#post641129

My company has 25 Haas machines and averages maybe one service call every two or three months, could even be fewer than that.

[crabbass]

If your production requirements can afford a Mazak, Okuma, Kitamura....
Absolutely buy It. Any honest Haas guy will tell you the same. Haas has their place, they are economical. The other more expensive guys cost more, because they are simply better built and longer lasting.
Just the straight facts.

P.S. I own a haas, and would buy another. I do wish I had the budget to run the higher end machines.

[Delw]

Originally Posted by Bwana Don I've been looking at the Haas MDC-500 to replace one of our older machines. I am used to Fadal or Fanuc programming so my questions are; a) What is the learning curve like going from Fadal format 2 & Fanuc M code G code to the Haas?

the learning curve is about 24 hours, 2-3 weeks till you quite second guessing yourself and about 5 weeks were you just hit the button and fly.
Ive run mainly fadals since the mid 90's I like them. I just needed a new machine/tax write off and haas looked good at the time, in all honesty I wanted to get out of the shop and my wife was with me so I told her to lets take a drive to look at a 5 axis vf2ss machine.she didnt want to go cause all machines are the same and she likes lathes, she never saw a 5 axis run, she bought it on the spot minus the 5th axis table.
will it ever replace the fadal I wont know for another 2-3 years on how to honestly answer that question.
I am pretty impressed with the speed but in all honestly now its slow LOL, the tool changer is faster than crap.
the rigidity is there and the finish and circles are true and nice even at high speeds.
the fine chips clogging up I dont like, but got a fix for it.( does the same on the fadal to BTW)
I did notice that I like the ease of doing offsets with and with out the probe ( pretty much one touch, unlike the fadal were its 2-3 key strokes in the right sequence and when I hit the lower buttons too hard I get then"B" letter ( on the fadal)
I like the side mounted tool holder
one thing I dont like is the home position when you power up. its on the left I like it right on center like the fadal, but thats just me and what I am used to.
some little things on it make it sweet not to loose things like I do on the fadal. ( has a rack system and a few trays).
the chip conveyor is great
the way covers make quite a bit of racket on the haas during rapids otherwise its a very quiet machine.

Originally Posted by Bwana Don B) What can I expect from their service department (North Detroit Suburbs)? They are selling me hard on their service/up-time and that has been our downfall.

can't answer for your area, but my area PHX I pick the phone up and have the answer immed. they have done a few courtesy calls and also a tech has stpped by once in a while. the main haas factory called last week asking how everything was going and if I was happy with the machine. ( in fadals defence I always had great service from them as well, they have made follow up calls when I have had a problem to see if it was ok).

one thing that was cool was friday afternoon they installed it, sat and sunday the machine had bad chatter, monday Am the haas guy was sitting at my door waiting for me. basically asking how it went over the weekend, when I told him, they worked on it immed. after the spindle was replaced we still had finish issues. they hung around for over a week till we determined the problem. which wasnt the machines fault entirely, I had 3 techs, they said if they couldnt get the machine fixed a new one would be dropped off. I never *****ed , got frustrated a few times but never called an complained or whined everything they did was on there own.
That right there tells me at least my HFO has there **** together.

so far I am pretty happy, I am also happy with my fadal lets see what happens in a few years, then I will know for sure.

[MikeOD]

Originally Posted by Bwana Don a) What is the learning curve like going from Fadal format 2 & Fanuc M code G code to the Haas?

The newest software for the Haas control can directly load and run Fadal programs......click here, and then click "FADAL Program Converter" http://www.haascnc.com/custserv_updates.asp#manualupd

[Bwana Don]

Thank you for the honest responses:

We have 1 Fadal and 1 Kitamura. They are both serviced by the same place (they just picked up Kitamura). 3 months ago if we had bought a new VMC it would have been hands down a Kitamura. Our MyCenter 3XI has been bullet proof since we bought it new in 2000.

That is until 2 months ago when the spindle bearings went and we called service. They had the spindle rebuilt ($12,000) two weeks later the Dueblin union failed and dumped coolant into the spindle and gearbox, another $2000 there. Less than two weeks later it alarmed out on tool changes (spindle would just spin). That took two weeks to track down. Fanuc module was replaced (soaked in coolant/oil and failed???) for $1500.

Now we are getting an ATC alarm, 5-20 times per shift. It clears right out most times other times the whole machine just quits working. The spindle is leaking oil too. Not real bad, but it was just rebuilt. I put 30 oz of oil in it in 3 weeks. Never put that much oil in the spindle in 8 years.

The Fadal is another story. Not a bad machine except for the coolant disks (Thru Tool) which we addressed with the Lightning Cool upgrade, and belts, and bellville washers. It's been O.K. overall.

In conclusion I would like to steer clear of Kitamura and Fadal. If I suggest going back to our same machine dealer for another machine, I will get a boot in my butt. Service has been too marginal. This is why I have been exploring Haas.

Thanks for your input everyone.

Don
ps I called the Mazak dealer too.

[anemachinebc]

update: Haas sent out a wonderful engineer from California to fix our machine, he just left and i must say i am impressed with the results. They definaly took care of us, thanks HAAS!

[UMI Performance]

The Haas machines seem popular and look nice. However I have been warned they are a light duty machine. I am searching for a used turning center right now and talking to a few used machine companies they only recommended the Haas for aluminum. But this is just them saying that, once company we have been dealing with since the late 90's and I do trust there opinion

Right now we currently have- (2) Wasino vertical mills with Fanuc, (1) Bridgeport VMC1000 with a Dx32, (1) Ameri-Seiki with Fanuc and a Tree with a Dynapath which is out of service currently. We also have a Hyundai turning center with a Fanuc. I would not recommend a Tree or Bridgeport.. both machines have cost us a lot to maintain. The Ameri-Seiki is a 2000 and we just rebuilt the spindle. I am considering trying Mazak for our next turning center

[crabbass]

you can't go wrong with a Mazak lathe. The conversational controll is the best out there, G-code is straight forward, they are robust and reliable.
I havn't had a nexus, but they are getting good reviews.