HELP! TM-1 320v PS Problem

[AMCTony]

I have a problem with my 320v power supply. I am getting error A on the PS that translates to phase AC fault. I am running the machine on single phase. The does this off and on. I disconnect the output to the servos from this to check if there was a problem with something feeding back and the problem is still there. Also, I am in southern Arizona and it has been 110 to 120 here every day. This has not been a problem in the past. I also had the power company out here and they said that my voltage looks good and if there was a problem with line frequency then the grid would automatically shut down. This may be true but if there are line capaciators between me and the substation that are acting up then that may be an issue. The guy that came out did not have the equipment to look at the line AC wave anyway. I took the PS out of the machine and put it in the refrigerator. The machine then powered up and ran normal. I am not getting any over temp errors. Haas says a new PS cost $4050 which is about as close to rape robbery and murder as possible. Does anyone know of different sources for replacement PS and other parts. Does anyone know of anybody that could rebuild one of these. There is about $100 worth of parts on a good day in one of these and putting one together from scratch has also crossed my mind.

[Donkey Hotey]

Somebody at your HFO is smoking crack. A Vector Drive might be 4-large, but not a stupid DC power supply in a TM-1.

You're closer to correct: I'd say that you have about $500-700 worth of components in that power supply. I don't think there is much more in it than a really big rectifier, a couple of huge capacitors and a circuit board. They're not cheap to rebuild (those caps are around $100 each), but the good news is that I doubt there's anything wrong.

Power has been absolutely whacked in the southwest, lately. I'm getting power dips right now (as I'm typing) where I can hear the A/C slow down and the lights dim slightly. Here are my guesses:

• One leg of your incoming power is more heavily loaded by something else on the circuit (110V blower for your HVAC unit?). When it fires up, that causes a single-sided dip in the power to the machine, it panics and errors out.
• The grid is just all wonky and you're getting slight dips in power. A momentary dip is probably all it takes to get an error. My VF-2 used to throw a low-volt error whenever I would do a toolchange. The problem? The incoming voltage was at the lower limit of the transformer taps, the toolchange went from zero to 10K RPM and the 3/4 HP coolant pump fired immediately after the spindle-start. Wham! Instant low-volt alarm. I had to rewire the incoming power on the transformer to get it into range. The next problem was a few days later when they upped the grid voltage another 4-5V to make up for lost current. Wham! High Voltage alarm. Sometimes you can't win. I consider retapping the transformer part of the seasonal maintenance now.

If it does end up being the power supply, I think the replacement was around $1500. The one in my TL-1 suffered infant mortality and was dead within the first 50 hours. It was covered under warranty, but it would not have been a $4K repair either (bet you're glad to hear that ).

[AMCTony]

Thanks man, you may have just prevented a suicide!!!

As far as the load goes. I have one leg showing 31 amps of load and the other at 12 amps. This combined with the power (which the power company ofcourse says is perfect... lol) is probally the issue. I got the machine to fire up and have just let it on for the last day. Made several parts with no issue sofar. The temperature has also been a good deal lower.

BTW.. the HFO in Phoenix is usually on crack.

Thanks,

Tony

[AMCTony]

Just a random question. You wouldn't happen to know why putting the PS in the freezer for 10 minutes makes it run again?

Just Curious

[Donkey Hotey]

Are you still having problems, or was this back when it was giving you fits? I was just guessing since I didn't have any way of taking actual measurements. My thought is that while you had the part in the freezer, your power grid settled down and that was the only reason it worked.

How did you measure those current numbers on each leg? While the machine was running? If it was running and had that much of a disparity, you might actually have a problem inside that power supply.

If it's still giving you problems, I'd take it apart and check each component individually. My power supply had a partially shorted trace on the circuit board that eventually heated up and exploded. Maybe you have something similar, a leaky capacitor or maybe even a shorted leg on the rectifier block. A diode setting on a decent VOM should allow you to check all of that.

[AMCTony]

I am still having problems. Once I get the machine to powerup without any PS errors (by putting the PS in the fridge for 10 minutes) It can run for hours on end taking fairly heavy cuts as well. The current was measured by my power company off of the mains going into my building with my machine off. It does act up while the machine is on when the weather starts to get on the humid and stormy side. I think that this may be that the incoming power gets messed up just enough to make a small internal problem with the PS show up in bold letters. I will have to take the thing apart to look for shorts and check the components. In the mean time, I think that I will call a different HFO for a price on a new PS just in case I need one. Hopefully they are not all smoking the same stuff.

[Donkey Hotey]

I don't think your HFO was being malicious. I think they had Vector Drive in their head.

My HFO carries Vector Drives in most of the vans, but didn't even have a power supply back at the shop; it had to be shipped from Oxnard. It's an unusual item and my repair guy had never replaced one ("They don't go bad!").

I agree though: there isn't much in them and I'd make sure all of those components are kosher. Heck, you might even have a loose screw connection inside. I never took mine apart, but from what I could see through the grill openings, there wasn't anything in there that wasn't a simple component. The only exception is the printed circuit board that made it easier for them to assemble (I don't think there are any integrated circuits in the unit).

[AMCTony]

I dont think that they are being malicious, just stupid. I think that it may be an Arizona thing because I run into the same thing everywhere from Walmart to local suppliers. Just part of the culture I guess. Infact, it is quicker for me to send work out of state for second ops, or order parts than to get the stuff locally. Believe it or not I went to our local Pneumatic component suppliers this past week to get a filter regulator. Pretty common item. Well, they had only 1 in stock and I had to show them what it was on the wall. Maybe its something in the water.... or lack of water.

[AMCTony]

I confirmed a price on the PS. It is $1350 with a core. The easy thing for me to do is replace the PS but I am still at a loss as to why it works after putting it in the refrigerator. Is there anyone here that is an electronics guru that might know what component(s) to look at and what to look for? I like to know why something went bad. I have never been one to call a repair man and let them just fix it.

[Donkey Hotey]

About all you can do now is take it apart and look up the price of each and every component. I'd be guessing because I haven't actually even had mine apart, but I think there's nothing more in there than a diode block and capacitors. I don't even think it has a contactor (relay). I'd bet that you can buy those components for about half the cost of the board.

You might discover a loose connector nut or screw inside the case. Then again, you might discover a crack in the board--in which case, you're buying a power supply anyway.

Not knowing your electronics skills and what you're comfortable with diagnosing, it's impossible to point you to a specific solution.

[gerald vern]

Originally Posted by AMCTony Just a random question. You wouldn't happen to know why putting the PS in the freezer for 10 minutes makes it run again? Just Curious

electrical components dont like to much heat,if your adventure minded set a small block of dry ice in the cab on a chunk of styfom,run your machine as normal. DO NOT TOUCH DRY ICE WITH BARE HANDS!

[Al_The_Man]

Get a can of Freezit, from any electronics supply house, it comes in an aerosol can and can be directed at a very small area to see if the problem corrects itself with a blast if icy air!.
Al.