Super Mini Mill - Initial Tooling

[TravisR100]

As you may have noticed in my other posts, I'm looking at buying a Super Mini. The HFO rep said they can set me up with whatever tooling company I'd prefer and they will generally make a good deal on an initial tooling purchase. My questions are, which company and what tooling?

I've liked the tooling from Iscar that I use on my manual machines. But I keep hearing the name Maritool over and over. Any opinions here?

Obviously asking "what tooling" begs the question of what I'm going to be making. It will be mostly small (5"x7"x2") or smaller aluminum parts. I'm not asking for specifics on specialty tooling, just the basics. Obviously a drill chuck, some end mill holders, and a collet chuck? Maybe a boring bar holder? Those items cover 90% of what I use now.

[Geof]

If you get the 15k rpm option, which I do not recommend, you have to make sure you get balanced tooling and you have to make sure your tooling is balanced when you use it.

This is why I am dubious about the value of the 15 k spindle. If your work needs it, i.e. mold finishing with a very small step-over and very fast feed, it is probably worth the hassle of always having to be careful with tool balance, but if you are doing fairly ordinary stuff the improvement in cycle time between 10 k and 15 k is not large. Also because the power is limited you cannot necessarily remove metal any faster at the higher rpm because you have to back off on the feed, the depth of cut or the tool width engagement.

Personally I think the money is better spent on the 4" Z axis lift because this gives much more room between spindle and table and means you can fit the HRT 210 rotary for a 4th axis.

[TravisR100]

Thanks for the reply Geof. Don't you only have to worry about balanced tooling above 10K RPM? The HFO rep said he'd give me the torque curves on both machines, with and without the 15K spindle. According to him there was no disadvantage to having it. There when you wanted it kind of thing. My question to him was specifically about loss of torque when machining at lower speeds. He seems to think it isn't so on this series.

[Geof]

Originally Posted by TravisR100 Thanks for the reply Geof. Don't you only have to worry about balanced tooling above 10K RPM?.....

Yes, that is my point 15k is above 10k.

The "there when you want it" aspect has some validity but you have to consider how often you are likely to want it and whether it gives an advantage, bearing in mind it is not the low speed torque that is limiting it is the high speed torque. If you are simply roughing off largish amounts of material it may go slower at a higher speed than at a lower speed because the feed, DOC and engagement are restricted by the low torque. I have found this on a VF2 with a 15k spindle, the maximum metal removal rate on some of our parts is at around 11,000rpm; we have never used the machine at full speed.

[TravisR100]

I just figured with small (1/8" sometimes) cutters in aluminum that you'd want that extra speed. If you're running the spindle at 10K or less do you still need to use balanced tooling? Wouldn't you only need that for the times when you were running at the higher speeds?

[TravisR100]

Do you think the 4" lift is necessary if all I'll ever be using is a 160 rotary table instead of the 210?

[TravisR100]

Thoughts on Maritool?

[Geof]

Certainly if you will be doing lots of intricate detailing with small diameter cutters get the faster spindle.

Balancing is advisable at 10k but if you do put in an unbalanced tool you are not likely to cause damage quickly; at 15k an unbalanced tool could cause damage within minutes. I guess I take a more cautious (negative) approach because I have employees who do not completely grasp the importance of using balanced holders at or above 10k.

Even with the 160 rotary I think the extra 4" would be useful; there is only 1" difference in center height between the 160 and 210 I think.

I cannot express any opinion on Maritool never having used any.

I am surprised no-one else has chimed in with an opinion; it is not good just getting my biases.

[TravisR100]

Geof, if you get a chance, would like your opinion in this thread:
Super Mini Mill - decisions

[JohnJW]

Originally Posted by Geof I am surprised no-one else has chimed in with an opinion; it is not good just getting my biases.

I um, form a lot of my opinions through reading Geof's posts. . . .

Regarding Maritools, I've order from Frank a few times and delivery has been prompt and the quality to my novice eyes looks and the tools run greats.

[John Crawford]

I am relatively inexperienced at machining in general and CNC in particular so my opinions aren't worth nearly as much as someone with more experience. I'm using a TM-1 to do prototype machining at home. I purchased all of my tool holders from Maritool and a fair number of cutting tools as well. Every purchase was shipped the same day I ordered it and arrived promptly. Nice products at very reasonable prices. A couple times I've emailed Frank and asked him for suggestions on cutting tools and feeds and speeds and he's always responded with cheerful and helpful information. I am a very satisfied customer of Frank Mari at Maritool.

Like JohnJW, I've also benefited a great deal from reading Geof's posts and appreciate the time he puts into them. I met him at the dinner he hosted before last year's Westec show so I can put a face with his name when I read his posts. It's people like Geof that make CNCZone such a great website.

[Cory]

Maritool is the greatest tooling company ever, imo.

My initial tooling purchase was all name brand stuff. Regofix collet chucks, Albrecht drill chucks, etc. ~$180 per collet chuck. Really expensive.

Everything since then has been Maritool. The quality is great, the collet chucks work just as well as my Regofix units, and the price is unbeatable. I wouldn't buy anything else. I now have probably ~24 of my 40 toolholders from Maritool.

I've saved a couple thousand dollars by buying Maritool.