Input on TL-2 vs SL20

[JohnJW]

I don't know that much about cnc lathe, as evident by the title. I want to do some simple turning and threading on primarily smaller 1" ~ 2" diameter aluminum bars or tube and am wondering if the SL20 is worth 2x the price of a TL1. Initially I was looking at the SL20 because of the tool turret and ability to attach a bar stock feeder, but the SL20 may end up like my VF2 that sit idle most of the time. I figure I'll just go with the TL1 initially and if volume picks up I can always add a SL20. TL1 also has a 16" maximum cutting diameter vs 10" on the SL20.

Are there any tasks that just can't be done on a TL1 vs a SL20? TL1 has a 2000rpm spindle vs 4000rpm on a SL and more hp. What does that mean in turning applications? better finish?

Regarding the TM vs VF thread, I also have the impression that VF though slightly more expensive offers a better value than a TM, but is the same true for lathe? I can't image not having full enclosure for a mill but are partial enclosure on the TL-1 workable for a lathe?

Thanks,

John. . . no one uses a SR100?

[Mr.Xtreme]

John,

The SL is a much better machine if you can afford it.
I am sure it's resale (if ever sold) is also much greater.
Yes the TL should sail thru anything you mention here.
Don't you wish to grow later and run more products and quantities?
If it were me I would buy the most machine I could afford.
I have an SL-10. It is a great machine, but wish I had bought the SL-20.
We had bought a higher end VF2SS Super Mill though.
Full enclosure is always better too.
As far as Bar Feeder on lathe unless you are really running large quantites of bars I would opt to buy the spindle liner kit and a good bar puller and advance the bar that way. My own opinion on the bar feeders are they are more trouble than worth. Every one I come across has issues, even on differnt brand machines (okuma, mazak)
I guess it boils down to how much you are really planning on running thru it.

Paul

[Geof]

The title to your post mentions TL2 but then you refer to the TL1; which one are you considering, they are very different animals; I have both and SL10s and HL1s which are equivalent to the SL20.

The TL2 can be a good subsitute for a SL20 if it is a full enclosure machine with the auto toolchanger; the TL1 can be an acceptable substitute.

With a bit of creativity you can make custom tool holders and gang tooling to get more than four tools in operation.

Bar-feeding is somewhat a moot point considering the TL machines do not come with a hydraulic chuck; or at least I think that is still the case. (If you are creative you could adapt a power chuck to use a bar-feeder but that is a major project; I know, I have done that on a TL1.)

There is (I think) a high speed spindle option for the enclosed version and once your warranty period has expired you can speed up the rapids.

I find setting up the TL2 more convenient that the SL models when doing one-or-a-few-offs.

The spindle bore is a few thou less than 3" and you can use a 10" chuck to run large diameter bar work; not possible on the SL20 and not possible on the TL1.

The larger spindle bore coupled with the extra length is why I say the TL2 is better; these features really add to the value of it as a general purpose machine.

I can safely say if I was just starting out, but had the knowledge and experience with Haas machines that I have after using them for ten years, I would get the TL2-P as a first lathe. And I would get the Super MiniMill with the raised Z axis and a HRT210 rotary for my mill.

[JohnJW]

Hi Geof, Paul,

Sorry, I meant TL-2, my mistake. Half way through typing I thought TL-1 and TL-2 shared the same spindle, but that's not true.

So I guess TL-2 with enclosure and tool changer would be sufficient. What about coolant pump? Is the coolant system something that can be DIY relatively easily with off the shelf component with a substantial saving over the factory system?

. . . the options on the Haas is really a deal breaker sometime. . . once I start adding up the options I "think" I need the price start to approach that of a SL series lathe. . . . it's kind of hard to wrap my mind around the concept of having to pay for control options like marcros that are already built into the control. . but that's the game we have to play . . .

I search through the forum and base on what I've read and the cool images from Geof, I think I'll go with TL-2. Are there any other "must have" options for the TL-2 besides the enclosure and tool changer?

Do I need macro? It's part of the probe package on a mill and I use it to set multiple offset from a common origin to make programming easier, are probes or macros as useful on a lathe as on a mill?

Thanks again,

John

[Geof]

I don't think it is worth trying to DIY for the high flow coolant pump, at the most you save a few hundred dollars.

Macros on the lathe doesn't seem worth it to me, setting work offsets and tool offsets is very different to the mill.

The only 'must have' option I can think about is Rigid Tapping and that may be included.

[JohnJW]

Thanks Geof,

How often are rigid tapping used on a lathe? Is it primarily for small, maybe 1" diameter less tapping? I am wondering because I want to keep the cost to a minimum.

For a general purpose CNC lathe, does a TL-2 with enclosure, hiflow coolant, auto tool station, and a 10" chuck sound okay? Do I need rigid tapping or a 3.5K spindle?

How small of a diameter can TL-2 go down to, can it go all the way down to 1/4"?

Looking at Haas's website, the advertised discounted price for a SL10 is actually lower than the list price for the barebone TL-2 I have in mind and SL10 already has enclosure, coolant, chuck, and turret standard. . . .

Thanks,

John

[pit202]

Hey , we have a SL-20B ( big bore - 65mm ) the B version has more power too, I do not have any of TL version for compare , but there are few things I can tell you : this machine is great as Is ( no need for improvements - enclosures ) , there are no jobs that can stop the spindle , we do much small parts and 3400RPM`s is enough in many cases , the great thing is that I can use drills with inside cooling , we changed only the coolant pump ( because we don`t have the HPC ) from 0.5bar to 3.5 bar pump and not only the drills are cutting better , the machine is quick too , look I make a video today , this is a 50mm aluminium part : inside cone , outside turning , part off and preparing the stop for next one 22 sec.

YouTube - sample of turning aluminium on a haas sl-20

YouTube - sample of turning aluminium on a haas sl-20

I can only compare the quality of my SL-20 and TM-1 machine, the SL is OK but there is no day that you can not grumble on the TM. My requirements are just too high , take you own conclusions to cut metal and not grumble.

Edit :
we use often rigid tapping , this is a helpful option, and there are jobs that we wish to have more than 10 tools

[Geof]

Originally Posted by JohnJW Thanks Geof, How often are rigid tapping used on a lathe? Is it primarily for small, maybe 1" diameter less tapping? For a general purpose CNC lathe, does a TL-2 with enclosure, hiflow coolant, auto tool station, and a 10" chuck sound okay? Do I need rigid tapping or a 3.5K spindle? How small of a diameter can TL-2 go down to, can it go all the way down to 1/4"? ..... discounted price for a SL10 is actually lower than the list price for the barebone TL-2 I have in mind and SL10 already has enclosure, coolant, chuck, and turret standard. . . . Thanks, John

Rigid tapping is used for deep tapping in material that tends to have stringy chips. It is not so much related to the size of the tap but it can allow you to tap large threads by takes lots of small pecks.

Rigid tapping is worth it but 3.5k spindle is too fast if you have a 10" chuck; I think the 10" chuck is limited to 2700rpm. What you describe sounds okay. that is what I have.

You can go below 1/4", all the way to 0.0.

Yes the SL10 is in the same region pricewise but it is much smaller, only 1-3/4" through the spindle and nowhere near the swing or length of the TL2. It is also very constricted doing setups and is a pain to use for one-offs.

The thing I like about the TL2 is that it can handle large jobs but is not so large that it is awkward to work on. The large spindle bore can be a plus for those oddball things that crop up. Case in point: I just finished making three liner tubes for some barfeeds we are building. DOM tube 2-3/4" OD, 2-3/8" ID 53" long. I turned the OD down to 2.68" for the full length by sliding it up the spindle. I have a Set-Tru chuck so I dialed in the partly turned tube for the second end and the cuts blended better than -0.0005. Then each end was threaded by having the tube stick out the back end of the spindle and stabilized with setscrews in the spindle end cap. Not possible to do on a SL10 or SL20 but a SL20 Big Bore could do it.

[JohnJW]

Originally Posted by Geof You can go below 1/4", all the way to 0.0.

Kind of a dumb questions, does that mean if needed, I can turn 1/4" pins that are roughly 1" long? If tiny parts can be done on the TL, why do people need smaller lathe for? Also, what's a Set-Tru chuck?

Thanks again,

john

[Geof]

The smiley face was to indicate I was being a bit facetious; naturally you can go below 1/4" because your tool can go past zero.

Turning something 1" long and 1/4" diameter is not limited by the machine but by the ratio between the diameter and length; you will almost certainly get deflection which is a function of the part not the machine.

Doing small parts on a big machine is certainly not ideal because the rpm is limited by the chuck size so sometimes it is difficult to get a good surface finish, but it is possible.

Your question about why would someone choose a smaller lathe is sort of backwards. You choose the size for the largest parts you are likely to work on (and afford) because while you can always do small work on a big machine it is impossible to do work bigger than the machine can swing.


What is a Set-Tru chuck?

A three jaw scroll chuck that has adjustment srews on the mounting flange that allow the part to be dialed in very precisely by moving the entire chuck body. It combines the advantages of a four jaw chuck with the convenience of a three jaw.