Any input on the HAAS Toolroom verses their VF series?

[cheetahcnc]

Hello all,

I am considering the purchase of a HAAS TM-1P and would appreciate any info or comparisons between the two. The TM-1P does have the 10ATC, enclosure, and coolant pump standard. The machine will be used mostly for aluminum jig plate and extrusions.

Jim

[Geof]

I have not checked the exact prices for the two machines but I think the cheapest VF machine is something like 2 to 2-1/2 times the price for the TM1P. They have approximately the same X, Y, Z travels but the rapids on the VF are 3 or 4 times faster, the spindle power is around 3 times greater on the VF and you get a 20 place tool changer. The rigidity of the VF machines is much higher and the maximum weight that can be put on the table is about twice. Cycle time for the same part (in 6061) is about 3 times as long on a TM machine as on a VF machine, although this does depend somewhat on the number of tool changes and the exact nature of the operations.

[tobyaxis]

Get the VF series over the Tool Room Mill. It has a lot more rigidity.

[cheetahcnc]

What are some of the significant areas to inspect on a used VF series? Any suggestions on must have options? ...an estimated machine run hour limit?

Jim

[tobyaxis]

The bottom line is to make money. With a VF series you will and the Tool Room you will have a hard time. You want to make money, right??

[cheetahcnc]

It always comes down to making money. Second, would be buying the right machine before I have bought the wrong machine.

Jim

[tobyaxis]

Originally Posted by cheetahcnc It always comes down to making money. Second, would be buying the right machine before I have bought the wrong machine. Jim

You will do 10 times better buying the VF series Honestly. I know a guy that bought a Tool Room machine for production work that is going to have to fight to make a nickel on the simple work that he wants to do. Never mind the more complex which he planned on doing. Go with the VF series for your own sake.

[Vern Smith]

First stating that I have the TM-1P there are lots of reasons to go with the bigger/faster/more rigid machines. However, there are situations where the TM-1P is a better choice.


1. If you are making small parts and take the time to program and fixture to take advantage of the 30" Y axis of the TM you will go as fast as the VM and save money on the acquisition cost.

2. If 10 or less tools do most of your jobs the larger tool changer is not as valuable.

3. The TM does not need 3 phase current.

4. The TM will depreciate less as a percentage of original acquisition cost. If you plan on running the machine until it expires this is not a factor.

5. If you opt. for the Renisaw tool setter the TM provides enough table space to not materially effect the machinable area.

If none or few of these apply spend the extra money, especially if you plan on cutting lots of hard stuff.

Vern

[behindpropeller]

Originally Posted by cheetahcnc It always comes down to making money. Second, would be buying the right machine before I have bought the wrong machine. Jim

Depends.

We bought our TM-2 for R&D work. It was either that or a bridgeport.

When a guy asks "what is better?" you need to ask what they plan on doing with it.

Our TM-2 will be ideal for us. For R&D and light production (5 pcs or less) it should be a great tool.

We bought it with the 20 place tool changer and probe system. I will soon be building an enclosure for it and upping the feeds and spindle to 6K once I am a bit more comfortable with it.

Tim

[DareBee]

Exactly
Production machine or 1-offs changes the whole perception of opinions.
On the same note you could pick a Makino over the Haas VF and it will run parts minimum 2 to 1 faster as well.

[Geof]

The TM doesn't seem to be getting many votes.

What size are your parts?

Other options are the MiniMill or SuperminiMill. The travels are certainly less at 16, 12, 10 for X, Y, Z but if this is enough for the parts you are doing these machines can be good value for money.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Geof I have not checked the exact prices for the two machines but I think the cheapest VF machine is something like 2 to 2-1/2 times the price for the TM1P. They have approximately the same X, Y, Z travels but the rapids on the VF are 3 or 4 times faster, the spindle power is around 3 times greater on the VF and you get a 20 place tool changer. The rigidity of the VF machines is much higher and the maximum weight that can be put on the table is about twice. Cycle time for the same part (in 6061) is about 3 times as long on a TM machine as on a VF machine, although this does depend somewhat on the number of tool changes and the exact nature of the operations.

A TM-1P is $35k base and a VF-1 is $47k base, iirc. A VF-1 is only 20" X travel, so to get the equivalent travel VF you'd need a VF-2 which is ~$51k