Westec 2009

[Haas_Apps]

(I posted this in another thread, but decided to start a new one as this is a new topic)
All,
Yes, I am back from Westec and no I did not get on the internet once. I thought I would have time but did not.
In reading through this thread I realize that we had many new things at Westec and some of them had little attention (M-Net, Program Optimizer). I intend to discuss this at a meeting tomorrow morning.
With that said I would like to know what you found to be the best thing at the show? I do not want to limit it to just Haas as I am looking at what we can do better. If it was not something in the Haas booth, can you also tell me what was the most exciting thing in the Haas booth?

[Donkey Hotey]

It looks like we need a mod to prune out the Westec stuff from the other thread and move it here. In case that never happens and other stumble onto this one, here is the 'other' thread:
http://cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76007&page=5

Exciting at the Haas booth? It had to be the DT-1. I don't have to tell you that, though. It had a crowd around it constantly.

The other thing that I think you guys did that you didn't necessarily mean to was the TRT160Y in that VF-5. For those not there, they had a simple, two-operation part running in it. The TRT160Y is a new trunion rotary that fits in the Y direction, leaving enough room for other tooling on the remainder of the table. The demo part started its first op in a Kurt vise, then moved to the trunion for all of the second operation stuff. That included facing, drilling and tapping on numerous sides.

The reason I call that genius is that it's one of those things that Haas pushes with new machines: that 4th axis wiring. Yeah, lots of people buy it but how many people actually buy a rotary to go with it? It would be great if more of the demos were set up with some of the other rotary products. The demo parts could be parts that people don't always think of as 'multi-axis' parts but require lots of flipping to do all of the operations. A simple air-line manifold or valve body is a good example. You could run those in virtually any machine and show off both the rotary and the machine at the same time. Show something like that being banged out in 3-4 minutes, with thread milled stubs and tapped ports and it would be a real sales tool. It would be a small vise on one side and the rotary on the other. Show that one machine can do all those ops in a single envelope and setup.

The other thing I kind of wish is if the vendors that supplied your tooling for each machine, had a small sign listing those tools. Chick and Kurt both get good exposure of their products in your various setups. I originally learned about Chick in the Haas booth, not the Chick booth.

I wish that extended to the unusual cutting tools ("This demo tooled by xxxx and features yyyy"). I just happened to ask the PH Horn guys about a grooving/turning tool and found out (by accident) that they have a patent on their design. Without that tool, square bottom grooves are tough or impossible on the lathe. I'm guessing that you must be using their stuff since a lot of the lathe demos have square shouldered, wide grooves that would be tough any other way.

The other that I didn't realize until after I was home (and Peter posted it here) was the Slater rotary broach that was running on one of the lathes. I got a great expanation at the Slater booth but I would have also liked to see it running and wish I had taken the sample part. I actually had it in my hand but didn't bother to look at the end or I would have realized it was broached and not just drilled.

Another thought was the Westec guide books you guys give out (with the machines, cycle times and descriptions of the operations). I wish you had a simple 3D line drawing next to each description. I actually take those demo parts back to work and share them with engineers. It's tough afterward putting the part with the machine page. I realize you're trying to sell machines, not educate engineers, but every pair of eyes that sees that stuff is a potential customer (it's exactly why I own two Haas machines today).

There's more. I think I'm running out of space allowed for a single post.

[Geof]

Originally Posted by Donkey Hotey ........It would be great if more of the demos were set up with some of the other rotary products. The demo parts could be parts that people don't always think of as 'multi-axis' parts but require lots of flipping to do all of the operations. A simple air-line manifold or valve body is a good example.....

Maybe I should rent them some of my setups.

[Donkey Hotey]

Originally Posted by Geof Maybe I should rent them some of my setups.

Your parts would be almost ideal for their demos.

More rotary stuff:

Another thing I've seen discussed but not demo'd at the Haas booth: mill parts from a lathe. You guys always seem to have a couple of mongo-sized lathes in the booth, often running live tooling. Why not set it up with a bar feeder and make some traditionally 'mill-made' 3-axis parts, with the feeder, on a lathe? Again: you might find the person who has to make a thousand of some 1x2" rectangular part that has a bunch of 4th axis type work, that could actually be continuously run from bar stock, on live-tooled lathe. Of course this will get everybody clamoring for the Y-axis lathe, but...

Rotary tombstones: Chick makes horizontal tombstones and Haas sells a couple of similar rotary options (quick cube & quick plate?). Again: multi-axis, faster production, in lower cost machines. Demos with those tooling options could sell both products to a potential customer.

Brother had a couple of very impressive machines. I can't remember all the details but I was pleasantly surprised to learn that they were not that far away from Haas in their pricing (which is to say: they seemed 30-50% higher, not 100% higher). I'm pretty sure it was Brother that had a 2G, 5 axis trunion machine that was dancing all over a contoured part and doing some impressively fast tool changes.

DMG had me drooling over their stuff. Their low cost line didn't seem that special, but I did get the rundown on a very nice 5-axis trunion vertical. It looked like an ideal, multi-axis prototyping machine (I think it was the Monoblock but can't remember for sure). They're in a different league and price-point but you asked what we found memorable from the show.

[Donkey Hotey]

OK, one more and I think I'll have it all off my chest.
(I'm actually trying to get it all down before your meeting tomorrow)

Maybe I missed it. Maybe I'm just overwhelmed by all that's going on in the booth. I don't actually read brochures until after the show. I spent three days at the show and I've been reading and sorting brochures ever since. I now realize how much I still missed at the show (and in the Haas booth). Was there a sign describing the new features of the TRT160Y? I realized what it was and how it was smaller. It was apparent that it was installed sideways. I probably missed all the coolness that went into designing it and why it's different than a TRT-160, installed sideways.

As for lathes, having a TL-1 and TL-2 side-by-side was nice but I wish that one of them had the enclosure. I was able to show some coworkers the slight differences between the two. When it came to describing the enclosure we're planning on ordering with our TL-2, the best I could do was turn around to the GT-20 and say, "It looks kinda' like this, but it leaks more." The only time I've seen a TL-1 with the enclosure was in the Dorian booth last year. I didn't really get a chance to grope the enclosure because it was full of their gang tooling and was busy making yoyos.

Believe me: I'm not complaining. I learn a lot from my visits to the Haas booth: so much so, that I try to dedicate at least an hour to just walking around your booth. I really appreciate it and everybody who takes the time to make it the experience that it is. I'm trying to give back by sharing my thoughts. If you did nothing to change it next year, it would still be a fantastic resource and a pleasant place to hang out and learn about Haas products. Please pass that along, because the hard work is apparent everywhere in your booth.

[Geof]

Originally Posted by Donkey Hotey ........ When it came to describing the enclosure we're planning on ordering with our TL-2, the best I could do was turn around to the GT-20 and say, "It looks kinda' like this, but it leaks more."

Some views of TL2 with enclosure in this thread.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43657

Yes it does leak more than a GT20.

I posted pictures here (Post #14) showing some baffles I installed that went a long way to solving leakage problems.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44745

[Donkey Hotey]

Originally Posted by Geof Some views of TL2 with enclosure in this thread.

Thanks for the reminder. I saved your photos this time. I was asking at the show about buying a full sheetmetal kit from the factory and installing it on my TL-1. Your photos will help me locate all the weird bracketry if I decide to take the plunge.

I was actually hoping to play around with the enclosure at the show. I wanted to see what the tailstock was like with the rear cover over it. The tailstock is already awkward to get to with the pendant swinging right there in your face. I wanted to see how much worse it was with the enclosure (I have incredible, orangutan-like arms with 4 joints each, but still think the tailstock will be more difficult to use ).

And the reason I brought it up was the TL-1 and TL-2 were differently equipped (which shows that somebody paid careful thought to picking them). The TL-2 had the tool changer on it and was dry cutting some imaginary parts. It just would have been nice to see the steady rest and enclosure on the second machine. In fact, the very first time I saw the steadyrest for the TL lathes was when mine arrived (I don't even know where there are photos of it). I was just suggesting that there is no point in paying for that convention space with redundant machinery.

[Geof]

Originally Posted by Donkey Hotey .....I wanted to see what the tailstock was like with the rear cover over it. The tailstock is already awkward to get to with the pendant swinging right there in your face. I wanted to see how much worse it was with the enclosure (I have incredible, orangutan-like arms with 4 joints each, but still think the tailstock will be more difficult to use ). ....

Awkward, that is a polite word, but I don't see what else could have been done.

Do you want to see pictures of our travelling steady rest and air operated tailstock for turning long thin pipe?

[Donkey Hotey]

Heck, yes, I'd like to see those photos. I didn't know about the pneumatic tailstock (I think I remember you mentioning the steady rest). Do you leave any of your machines alone? New thread or do we already have a TL-1 / TL-2 tricks thread?

I think operating the tailstock with the enclosure, requires arms something like this:

[Geof]

Originally Posted by Donkey Hotey ..... Do you leave any of your machines alone? New thread or do we already have a TL-1 / TL-2 tricks thread? ...

Some of them .

We can start a new thread; 'Mods to Machines' or something like that? When I get the time I am going to show a video of the TL1 I modified for facing and parting off stainless steel tube, complete with its 24 feet long air operated bar feed. Which works very well whether or not a persons finger is in the way; I can still count up to ten but one of the digits is a bit deformed.

You realise I am likely to monopolize the new thread.

[ckirchen]

Originally Posted by Geof You realise I am likely to monopolize the new thread.

Ha ha, I look forward to it!

The twin tool blocks you made for your GT20 were motivation for the triple tool block I made for mine.

[Geof]

Originally Posted by ckirchen Ha ha, I look forward to it! The twin tool blocks you made for your GT20 were motivation for the triple tool block I made for mine.

But mine have rounded corners.

On a serious note, maybe somewhat self satisfied because I have an ego as big as anyone (maybe bigger), I find it really neat and satisfying that you have taken one of my ideas and extended it; that is the main reason I post these things.

Many people probably have neat ideas that they are reluctant to publicise either because The Boss will come down on them like a ton of bricks or because the idea is making money for them and they don't want to spread it to the competition. I am the boss, we make all our own products and do not have any effective competion so I am not constrained.