Help identify this rotary

[WillRitter]

Hi there,
My first post, sorry if something like this is buried somewhere else. I bought a used VF-3 and am just getting used to it (coming from a Tormach PCNC) but am really excited with what I've done on it so far. Automatic tool changers are cool!

I also purchased a rotary for this machine which you can see here: http://picasaweb.google.com/sparkwill/HAASRotaryTable#. I've had no luck getting it to talk to the mill. My mill is prewired for a fourth axis but connecting the rotary directly to the machine only generates errors. The rotary does work with the separate control box. My questions:

1. What model is this rotary? It doesn't have a serial number on it.
2. What settings do I need in my mill to run it?
3. Do I need to connect it through the control box and then to the machine?
4. Was $3500 too much to pay for this?

Thanks for helping out a total noob!

[billystein]

Hi Will,
I have used a unit similar to the picture. it is not a live 4th axis. it is an indexer. the control is programmed with angles and feedrates for rotation. then you send the index signal from the machine control. which does the same thing as pushing the start button on the control box.
you cannot run this unit like a live 4th axis. the feeds are not syncronized to the machine control.
I dont know if you need any hardware on the machine control. I used it on a fadal which had a 1030 board. when the machine read the proper m code the indexer moves to the new position.
the price looks ok if it works good. I can help you program the control box if you dont have a manual.
make sure you run the unit periodically so it doesn't rust. if you dont use it for long it can seize and then you need to take it apart and lube everything.

billy

[Geof]

The rotary unit should have a model name on it somewhere. When you connect it to the machine, which should only be done when the machine power is turned off, you have to activate the 4th axis. Go into the Settings and page down until you find one that says either 4th axis or A axis and scroll sideways to bring up the different models. Press Write to select your model.

[WillRitter]

Billy: Thanks for the quick reply. From what I've read in the HAAS user's manual it agrees with what you're saying if the control box is required, use as an indexer but not coordinated moves between the axes. Thanks for the offer on programming help!

Geof: Yup, I've followed the HAAS instructions as far as powering down the machine, connecting the rotary directly (no control box) and then changing parameter 43. The choices I get are HRT 160, HRT 210, HRT 310, HRT5CN, HRT 450, VR-a, VR-B, S5C, 7RT, 9RT, 5RT, 11RT, and HA5C. I've tried all of these and only get errors. I've looked all over this thing and there's no model or serial number on it, which drives me nuts! My guess is that I need to connect it through the control box to the machine via a serial cable. I'm going to go pick one up and see if that works. Thanks for the suggestions.

[rlabonte18]

I think your haas is to new for this rotary. I can't remember the model number but it should be dated around 1990 or so and used with the older dc motor haas machines which will be around 95 or older. on top of the indexer in the back milled pocket there should be a 90400 number or something close to it which means nothing.

[Donkey Hotey]

It looks to me like the HRT-A6: that means Horizontal Rotary Table with the A2-6 spindle nose. They also make an HRT-A5 which--as you might guess--has an A2-5 spindle nose.

If I'm not mistaken, that's basically the HRT-210 with a different faceplate. Measure the diameter of the outside of the platter. It sure looks like the 210mm platter.

The only caveat I have is that there were some earlier models between their belt-driven Yuasa rotaries and the current model numbers. They were also painted black but their model numbers were in inches.

[dave3431]

The old black haas rotary tables use a different pinout and also uses single ended position feedback.
The renco encoder does have differential output, so you can re-wire your table for use with the vf3.
Yes, you paid WAAAY too much, $1500 for a good clean one recently on ebay.
The most practical way for you to use it in the short term is to use M codes and program the rotary moves on the rotary control.

Dave

[WillRitter]

I took a look in all of the milled pockets and found a number, 062 was stamped in several of them (had to bust out the degreaser to find them):

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...eat=directlink


There is a label on the cable off of the rotary with some numbers on it:
93-3097
Rev. B
RND 40/00

Not sure if those apply to the rotary or just the cable. The cable has 14 pins. The connector on my '98 VF-3 has 17 pins.

Here's a measurement of the table:

Seems to be 195mm in diameter
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...eat=directlink

The control box has serial number 110 on it. Both it and my VF-3 have 25 pin serial connectors.

[WillRitter]

More investigating on the HAAS website, I found the following on the Rotary repair center page, the only models that have a serial number within the milled slots are the HRT7/9/11/SRT. http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...eat=directlink That helps narrow it down a bit. Not very excited about rewiring it!

I just got off the phone with tech service at HAAS and was able to figure out that it's an SRT7 from around 1989 or 1990, the second generation of rotaries made by HAAS. Apparently there is an adapter for 14 to 17 pins that will allow me to run this in full fourth axis mode. Considering its age he said finding spare parts may be difficult or impossible. Gotta have me a conversation with the guy I bought it from.

Thanks for your help guys, this is a great site.

[pitmaster]

Some of the older black box rotary's (which I also have ) work fine when attached directly to the machine without the control. As long as the machine and rotary both have the same number of pins, that will eliminate the brush vs brushless problems. Just measure the diamater of the rotary the older units were in inches, mine is 7". The "A" codes are seamless and it is LIVE, its just a little slower then the newer ones. Paramater 30 (4th axis enable ) must be set to the rotary you have, I set mine to 7RT. Hit the settings/graph button, type 30 and press down arrow to get you to the right spot.

[WillRitter]

The saga continues:

Talked to a HAAS tech last week and he pointed me toward the CA1417 adapter which I ordered. It showed up, but it has a 14 pin male adapter and a 17 pin female adapter on it, just what my machine and rotary have, so no worky. I talked to Mike at extension 7107 at HAAS today who is apparently a rotary whisperer. He informed me that I need the CA 1714 adapter (which will have the proper female and male combo) instead and then faxed me a document from 1991 explaining the jumper changes I'll need to make inside my VF-3 to make them play nice together. Even with those jumper changes he wasn't sure if it was going to work. The most reliable way to make it work he said is to change the cable on the rotary to a 17pin, but it sounds like the changes needed inside the rotary might be a bit daunting for me to do myself.

Yay.

I did do a production run on my HAAS yesterday and was really happy, made some money with it rather than just spending money on it. Got ready to do the same today and the monitor went out on me. Sometimes when it rains it pours!

[Haas_Apps]

Well, you are talking to the right guy. Mike G. would be the guy I would talk to.