General question about the TM1-P capabilities.

[l u k e]

This question is meant in the most “general” way possible. The TM1-P is not my first or even second pick when it comes to HAAS, but more of a personal economic choice. I would rather not turn this into a “numbers down the road” thread, meaning what other machine would be a better choice in the long run, because I already get that. I just want to understand the TM1-P’s general capabilities.

Here is a product that is in the complexity range of what I'm looking to make. (Not mine)
The material is 6061 .75” x 4.5” x 7”

RIGHT SIDE>


LEFT SIDE>


TOP SIDE>


BOTTOM SIDE>


Do you suppose the TM1-P is capable of making parts of this general level of complexity?

Also, is the TM1-P capable of “production” even on a low level?

My definition of low level production would be part runs of 50-100. Everything I do right now is on a manual knee mill in the range of 50 parts per run. I make far less complicated parts as the one shown, but I would like to do more difficult parts (CNC of course) in the range of what I’ve shown in the pictures.

[axis]

the tm1p should have no problem doing this part with the tm its more the operator and setup then the machine. i would still spend the money to get into a vf but if money is a problem the tm is a good start. i have a tm that is 7 years old and still use it daily if it had a side mount tool changer it would be better. tool changer is a must.

[Geof]

That is well within the capabilities of a TM1-P.

Get the high flow coolant pump and the toolchanger. Once your machine is out of warranty you can enquire on here and find out how to boost the spindle speed and rapids.

[behindpropeller]

Originally Posted by Geof That is well within the capabilities of a TM1-P. Get the high flow coolant pump and the toolchanger. Once your machine is out of warranty you can enquire on here and find out how to boost the spindle speed and rapids.

Geof-

After seeing the "high flow" coolant pump I think I would have found out a way to find a different pump and put my $$ into another feature....such as rigid tapping or a probe, or PCool.

Thats just my thoughts...

Tim

[l u k e]

How long would it take an experienced operator to make say 50 of these frames? (I'm only after a guestimate.)

[Geof]

Originally Posted by l u k e How long would it take an experienced operator to make say 50 of these frames? (I'm only after a guestimate.)

Can't help you on that one; they look like a candidate for CAD/CAM which is outside my sphere of expertise.

[axis]

the time depends on the tools you have if your using hsm the setup would be the big time taker mabey a 4th axis would be good idea

[l u k e]

AXIS (or anyone)

With the g code written, and without the 4th axis, how long do you suppose it would take to cut 50 frames? Just an educated guess, I'm not banking on it, I'm still trying to generalize its capabilities.

[Donkey Hotey]

I know exactly where you're trying to go with this but nobody can really give you a solid answer. We'd need to know how many tapped holes, how many through holes, how many different size holes, etc. Even then, how are you going to hold it, what kind of vises, etc.

It looks like it will need machining on all four sides (at least). That means four setups. Do you want to do those in vises lined up across the table? Four vises ain't gonna' be cheap (but probably necessary). Also: you mocked the high flow coolant pump. Don't confuse it with the smaller pump. The high flow pump could be used to wash your car--it's powerful and it will can make a mess.

My knee-jerk guess is that you'd have to charge at least $100 each (bare minimum) for that component alone, just to pay for your time and a little depreciation on the machine. That's any machine. You could get the cost down with more units and aggressive programming, but you're going to have quite a bit of sunk cost with soft jaws, cutters and programming. It's also not a good candidate for hand programming--you're going to need good CAM software.

I'd guess that with four of them in the machine at once (in each of the four positions necessary to complete a frame), I'd figure about an hour of running time (that's one finished part coming out, per hour).

With a VF-2 or larger, enough vises, CAM software and enough parts to really make optimization worthwhile, you might get them down to 15 minutes per part, but that's going to cost you in development time.

Paintball guns I'd guess? I don't think the market will bear what you'd have to charge to make a living.

[Geof]

Originally Posted by Donkey Hotey .....Also you mocked the high flow coolant pump. Don't confuse it with the smaller pump. The high flow pump could be used to wash your car--it's powerful and it will can make a mess...... ....I'd guess that with four of them in the machine at once (in each of the four positions necessary to complete a frame), I'd figure about an hour of running time (that's one finished part coming out, per hour). With a VF-2 or larger, enough vises, CAM software and enough parts to really make optimization worthwhile, you might get them down to 15 minutes per part, but that's going to cost you in development time. Paintball guns I'd guess? I don't think the market will bear what you'd have to charge to make a living.

You are not being fair, it was behindpropeller that was deprecatory to the high flow pump.

You will maybe have noticed I bowed out of the time estimation for these parts but my gut feeling was 30 minutes....if someone provided me with the data that would permit hand coding (not impossible I think looking at the pictures).

And I would not dismiss the economic viability of making fancy paintball guns because I found some stuff about people paying many hundreds of dollars for these things.

[tobyaxis]

Originally Posted by Geof You are not being fair, it was behindpropeller that was deprecatory to the high flow pump. You will maybe have noticed I bowed out of the time estimation for these parts but my gut feeling was 30 minutes....if someone provided me with the data that would permit hand coding (not impossible I think looking at the pictures). And I would not dismiss the economic viability of making fancy paintball guns because I found some stuff about people paying many hundreds of dollars for these things.

That cash has come and gone around here. We made Thousands of paint ball products about 8 years ago.

The TM1 will take about 1.5 hours to make one of these.

The Mazak we used was an MTV with a CAT50 and total machining time was around Geof's 30 minute guess. We knocked it down from 6 ops to 4 ops with some crafty fixtures but the average feed rate was 80 IPM. The roughing we did a around 375 ipm. All four vises in the machine were a different op. One cycle equaled 1 housing. But our housings were a little longer and heavier looking, like a rifle.

These guys wanted a 62 micro finish for red, blue, and green anodize.

I will see if I can find some pics of those.

Get a VF1 or larger to make these, the TM1 is not a high production VMC.

[Donkey Hotey]

Ahhh...okay, I missed who made the comment about the coolant pump.

No, it's not outside of hand coding, but if he's only going to make 50 of them, then the days spent calculating angles and depths, etc, etc, would not pay off (I'm assuming he wants to be paid for his programming and setup time).

Also: the 1-hour estimate was based on a sub-5K spindle and limited rigidity (and it was a PDOOMA estimate: Pulled Directly Out Of My...)

I'm not entirely dismissing the viability of fancy paintball guns but it's an aggressive market where I think you really need to have something, in order to outshine the existing competition.

I'd say if you're serious about doing it, there are a number of VF-1 & 2 machines on eBay right now. There's a 2004, VF-1 VOP-D for $35K. It's got the 10K spindle and a 20 pocket toolchanger. There's another one that is a 2004 for $3K more and it has a vise and some toolholders (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=110362283198). That'll outperform a new TM-1P at a similar price point.