Haas VF2 pocket tolerances

[leptihor]

Get new VF2 two monts ago. Use Mastercam X2 to program machine and Autocad for make drawing. When cutting hole or contour with endmil always have hole 0.006 to 0.007" smaller and contour bigger. Tried couple brand new cutters with same results. Usually i change in Mastercam size of endmil let say from 0.5" to 0.497" to get right size of holes and outside contours. If i drill holes using drill distance between is accurate. I dont know if problem with accuracy is caused with Mastercam, cutters or machine. What is best way to find what make this accuracy problem.
Sorry for my English, it is not my first language.

[HuFlungDung]

What rpm, what feedrate, what finish cut depth are you using?

Have you rerun the tool over the exact same path? Does it cut closer to size if you do this?

Only judge the machine after the tool has run around the part profile and no longer makes chips. That is the real size that the machine has made the part. Too high of a finish feedrate creates tool deflection and prevents the tool from removing all of the material that it should.

The values you gave us sound a little bit high on the side of error, but for both conditions: bores undersize, bosses oversize, too high of a feedrate is all I would suspect, barring some sort of gross defect in the machine like a loose toolholder (low drawbar force) or a bad spindle (loose bearings = chatter).

[Donkey Hotey]

Do you know how to program by hand?

Do you know the difference between centerline programming and cutter compensation?

Do you have the Probing option and the tool presetter?

Do you have any wear offset numbers in the offset table?

Mastercam is only going to do what you tell it. If the cutter isn't the diameter you told Mastercam, it won't cut the right thickness. If the cutter has any runout because of a poor quality holder or because of a chip up in the spindle, it won't concentric--and you won't get the right thickness.

My first guess is that in Mastercam, you're doing "Cutter compensation in the Computer" instead of "Control." That, combined with a wrong tool diameter is what is leading to the problems.

You might also have a value in the Mastercam dialog box for "XY material to leave."

From you post, I can't tell how much experience you have so I have to ask all of the questions.

[kojack]

from your description

holes smaller and contour bigger that seems too me the cutters are smaller

than what is programed .. are you running new end mills or are they reground?

[leptihor]

My experience with mastercam is limited. Started to use Mastercam 4 months ago. Have some experience manual programming and using Smartcam.
I will try to describe setting as best as i can.
Material Aluminum 6061
Most of the time using carbide cutter 0.5" diameter, brand new and tried couple of them.
With 0.5" cutter setup depth is newer more then 0.25" per pass. Always use ruffing and final cut at final depth ( 0.0010 - 0.020" for final cutting)
Tools holder are brand new and good quality, and I dont believe they cause my problem.
Using cutter compensation in the computer, matterial to live xy =0 .
Wear offset numbers in the offset table =0
Feedrate for 0.5" solid carbide endmill with 2 flutes 25 - 35 ipm with RPM 4000 - 6000
No I still dont have any Probing option and the tool presetter.
If I rerun the tool over the exact same path tool does not cut any matterial, what mins that is probably something wrong with my programming. Maybe tool compensation in thecomputer, or some wrong setup in Mastercam, or because i make draving in Auto Cad and import them im mastercam, but 0.006" error is realy big when cutting hole of 2-3" diameter.
Thank you for your ansvers.

[Donkey Hotey]

Can you attach the attach the Mastercam file here? I have MCX, MR2. If your version is that one or earlier, I can take a look at it.

It sounds like you're doing everything right. I see why you're frustrated with it.

[littlerob]

You could also post the G-Code that MasterCam is kicking out for you, to be scrutinized.

Just a thought, I don't import anything into MasterCam. I draw everything in M.C. is there a possibility of some flaw, maybe importing the wrong file format? I'm sure Greg knows alot more than me about it, I.E. opening a DWG file with a iges extension. I don't think that is possible. I was just thinking aloud. 6 thousandths is alot.

But I would certainly post the G-Code then you can establish whether it is program error or something else. Robert

[ckirchen]

In my experience, brand new endmills are usually undersize. Garr advertises their endmills as +.000"/-.002", Micro100 at +.000"/-.003". This is because they start with a precision blank and when they sharpen the cutting edge, a little bit of material has to be removed, thus it becomes undersize.

If you need to reduce a 1/2" endmill from 0.500" to .497" in MasterCAM to get it to cut the way you want, it sounds like the cutters are in tolerance and nothing is wrong. I have just come to accept that if I want a dead-on hole or boss, then I need to either measure the endmill before machining or measure the feature after the first pass.

[littlerob]

Originally Posted by ckirchen Garr advertises their endmills as +.000"/-.002", Micro100 at +.000"/-.003". This is because they start with a precision blank and when they sharpen the cutting edge, a little bit of material has to be removed, thus it becomes undersize.

I find this hard to believe. I looked at their website but it was a little weird to navigate.

But how can GARR compete with tolerances like that? When RobbJack is .0003 total, SGS is .0003 total, Atrax is .00035 total, OSG is .00025 total. Two thou total tolerance that is a little lenient for me. Robert

[ckirchen]

Both tolerances are straight out of their catalogs. I'm sure they have tighter tolerance versions, but I've never looked.

SGS has the same: http://www.sgstool.com/catalogs/PDFs...s/Std_1_1M.pdf (first page, upper right)

So does RobbJack: http://www.robbjack.com/aluminum/ (under A1 series, about a quarter way down)

And OSG has a chart that show all their tolerances: http://www.osgcanada.com/Technical.asp?tid=9&id=38

I'll admit that Garr's .002" total is not as good as OSG's .001" total, but Garr is right in the same range as the others.

I agree that Garr's website is a pain to navigate. That's why I use the catalog.

[Geof]

Originally Posted by littlerob ....But how can GARR compete with tolerances like that? When RobbJack is .0003 total, SGS is .0003 total, Atrax is .00035 total, OSG is .00025 total. Two thou total tolerance that is a little lenient for me. Robert

When do you ever actually rely on the precision of the cutter as opposed to using tool comp to zero in the dimension you need? We use GAR almost exclusively and the -0.002" tallies with what I have come to expect; to the extent that for a 0.500" +/-0.001" interpolated hole from a 3/8" cutter I will sometimes program 0.502".

I think it is much better to have the cutter on size or slightly undersize rather than nominal +/- something; an oversize cutter could wreck a part but an undersize one leaves chance for a second pass after tweaking the wear.

[leptihor]

Here is one G code program.
N100 G20
N102 G0 G17 G40 G49 G80 G90
( .5 FLAT ENDMILL TOOL - 3 DIA. OFF. - 3 LEN. - 3 DIA. - .5 )
( ENDMILL )
N104 T3 M6
N106 G0 G90 G54 X2.142 Y1.8447 A0. S3500 M3
N108 G43 H3 Z.5 M8
N110 Z.3
N112 G1 Z.1 F15.
N114 G2 X1.5442 Y1.8965 Z.0506 I-.2989 J.0259 F25.
N116 X2.142 Y1.8447 Z.0012 I.2989 J-.0259
N118 X1.5442 Y1.8965 Z-.0482 I-.2989 J.0259
N120 X2.142 Y1.8447 Z-.0976 I.2989 J-.0259
N122 X1.5442 Y1.8965 Z-.147 I-.2989 J.0259
N124 X2.1431 Y1.8706 Z-.195 I.2989 J-.0259
N126 G1 X1.8681
N128 G3 X1.7631 R.0525
N130 X1.8681 R.0525
N132 G1 X1.9931
N134 G3 X1.6381 R.1775
N136 X1.9931 R.1775
N138 G1 X2.2431
N140 G3 X1.3881 R.4275
N142 X2.2431 R.4275
N144 G1 Z.105 F45.
N146 G0 Z.5
N148 X2.142 Y1.8447
N150 Z.105
N152 G1 Z-.095 F15.
N154 G2 X1.5442 Y1.8965 Z-.1444 I-.2989 J.0259 F25.
N156 X2.142 Y1.8447 Z-.1938 I.2989 J-.0259
N158 X1.5442 Y1.8965 Z-.2432 I-.2989 J.0259
N160 X2.142 Y1.8447 Z-.2926 I.2989 J-.0259
N162 X1.5442 Y1.8965 Z-.342 I-.2989 J.0259
N164 X2.1431 Y1.8706 Z-.39 I.2989 J-.0259
N166 G1 X1.8681
N168 G3 X1.7631 R.0525
N170 X1.8681 R.0525
N172 G1 X1.9931
N174 G3 X1.6381 R.1775
N176 X1.9931 R.1775
N178 G1 X2.2431
N180 G3 X1.3881 R.4275
N182 X2.2431 R.4275
N184 G1 Z-.09 F45.
N186 G0 Z.5
N188 X2.142 Y1.8447
N190 Z-.09
N192 G1 Z-.29 F15.
N194 G2 X1.5442 Y1.8965 Z-.3394 I-.2989 J.0259 F25.
N196 X2.142 Y1.8447 Z-.3888 I.2989 J-.0259
N198 X1.5442 Y1.8965 Z-.4382 I-.2989 J.0259
N200 X2.142 Y1.8447 Z-.4876 I.2989 J-.0259
N202 X1.5442 Y1.8965 Z-.537 I-.2989 J.0259
N204 X2.1431 Y1.8706 Z-.585 I.2989 J-.0259
N206 G1 X1.8681
N208 G3 X1.7631 R.0525
N210 X1.8681 R.0525
N212 G1 X1.9931
N214 G3 X1.6381 R.1775
N216 X1.9931 R.1775
N218 G1 X2.2431
N220 G3 X1.3881 R.4275
N222 X2.2431 R.4275
N224 G1 Z-.285 F45.
N226 G0 Z.5
N228 X2.142 Y1.8447
N230 Z-.285
N232 G1 Z-.485 F15.
N234 G2 X1.5442 Y1.8965 Z-.5344 I-.2989 J.0259 F25.
N236 X2.142 Y1.8447 Z-.5838 I.2989 J-.0259
N238 X1.5442 Y1.8965 Z-.6332 I-.2989 J.0259
N240 X2.142 Y1.8447 Z-.6826 I.2989 J-.0259
N242 X1.5442 Y1.8965 Z-.732 I-.2989 J.0259
N244 X2.1431 Y1.8706 Z-.78 I.2989 J-.0259
N246 G1 X1.8681
N248 G3 X1.7631 R.0525
N250 X1.8681 R.0525
N252 G1 X1.9931
N254 G3 X1.6381 R.1775
N256 X1.9931 R.1775
N258 G1 X2.2431
N260 G3 X1.3881 R.4275
N262 X2.2431 R.4275
N264 G1 X2.2531
N266 F15.
N268 G3 X1.3781 R.4375 F25.
N270 X2.2531 R.4375
N272 G1 Z-.48 F45.
N274 G0 Z.5
N276 X5.4976 Y1.0356
N278 Z.3
N280 G1 Z.1 F15.
N282 G2 X4.8998 Y1.0874 Z.0506 I-.2989 J.0259 F25.
N284 X5.4976 Y1.0356 Z.0012 I.2989 J-.0259
N286 X4.8998 Y1.0874 Z-.0482 I-.2989 J.0259
N288 X5.4976 Y1.0356 Z-.0976 I.2989 J-.0259
N290 X4.8998 Y1.0874 Z-.147 I-.2989 J.0259
N292 X5.4987 Y1.0615 Z-.195 I.2989 J-.0259
N294 G1 X5.2237
N296 G3 X5.1187 R.0525
N298 X5.2237 R.0525
N300 G1 X5.3487
N302 G3 X4.9937 R.1775
N304 X5.3487 R.1775
N306 G1 X5.5987
N308 G3 X4.7437 R.4275
N310 X5.5987 R.4275
N312 G1 Z.105 F45.
N314 G0 Z.5
N316 X5.4976 Y1.0356
N318 Z.105
N320 G1 Z-.095 F15.
N322 G2 X4.8998 Y1.0874 Z-.1444 I-.2989 J.0259 F25.
N324 X5.4976 Y1.0356 Z-.1938 I.2989 J-.0259
N326 X4.8998 Y1.0874 Z-.2432 I-.2989 J.0259
N328 X5.4976 Y1.0356 Z-.2926 I.2989 J-.0259
N330 X4.8998 Y1.0874 Z-.342 I-.2989 J.0259
N332 X5.4987 Y1.0615 Z-.39 I.2989 J-.0259
N334 G1 X5.2237
N336 G3 X5.1187 R.0525
N338 X5.2237 R.0525
N340 G1 X5.3487
N342 G3 X4.9937 R.1775
N344 X5.3487 R.1775
N346 G1 X5.5987
N348 G3 X4.7437 R.4275
N350 X5.5987 R.4275
N352 G1 Z-.09 F45.
N354 G0 Z.5
N356 X5.4976 Y1.0356
N358 Z-.09
N360 G1 Z-.29 F15.
N362 G2 X4.8998 Y1.0874 Z-.3394 I-.2989 J.0259 F25.
N364 X5.4976 Y1.0356 Z-.3888 I.2989 J-.0259
N366 X4.8998 Y1.0874 Z-.4382 I-.2989 J.0259
N368 X5.4976 Y1.0356 Z-.4876 I.2989 J-.0259
N370 X4.8998 Y1.0874 Z-.537 I-.2989 J.0259
N372 X5.4987 Y1.0615 Z-.585 I.2989 J-.0259
N374 G1 X5.2237
N376 G3 X5.1187 R.0525
N378 X5.2237 R.0525
N380 G1 X5.3487
N382 G3 X4.9937 R.1775
N384 X5.3487 R.1775
N386 G1 X5.5987
N388 G3 X4.7437 R.4275
N390 X5.5987 R.4275
N392 G1 Z-.285 F45.
N394 G0 Z.5
N396 X5.4976 Y1.0356
N398 Z-.285
N400 G1 Z-.485 F15.
N402 G2 X4.8998 Y1.0874 Z-.5344 I-.2989 J.0259 F25.
N404 X5.4976 Y1.0356 Z-.5838 I.2989 J-.0259
N406 X4.8998 Y1.0874 Z-.6332 I-.2989 J.0259
N408 X5.4976 Y1.0356 Z-.6826 I.2989 J-.0259
N410 X4.8998 Y1.0874 Z-.732 I-.2989 J.0259
N412 X5.4987 Y1.0615 Z-.78 I.2989 J-.0259
N414 G1 X5.2237
N416 G3 X5.1187 R.0525
N418 X5.2237 R.0525
N420 G1 X5.3487
N422 G3 X4.9937 R.1775
N424 X5.3487 R.1775
N426 G1 X5.5987
N428 G3 X4.7437 R.4275
N430 X5.5987 R.4275
N432 G1 X5.6087
N434 F15.
N436 G3 X4.7337 R.4375 F25.
N438 X5.6087 R.4375
N440 G1 Z-.48 F45.
N442 G0 Z.5
( 1.573" DIAMETER )
N444 S4000 M3
N446 X1.7891 Y2.1206 Z.35
N448 Z.3
N450 G1 Z-.2 F10.
N452 G41 D3 X1.2891 F25.
N454 G3 X1.0391 Y1.8706 R.25
N456 X2.5921 R.7765
N458 X1.0391 R.7765
N460 X1.2891 Y1.6206 R.25
N462 G1 G40 X1.7891
N464 Y2.1206
N466 Z-.4 F10.
N468 G41 D3 X1.2891 F25.
N470 G3 X1.0391 Y1.8706 R.25
N472 X2.5921 R.7765
N474 X1.0391 R.7765
N476 X1.2891 Y1.6206 R.25
N478 G1 G40 X1.7891
N480 Y2.1206
N482 Z-.6 F10.
N484 G41 D3 X1.2891 F25.
N486 G3 X1.0391 Y1.8706 R.25
N488 X2.5921 R.7765
N490 X1.0391 R.7765
N492 X1.2891 Y1.6206 R.25
N494 G1 G40 X1.7891
N496 X1.7791 Y2.1206
N498 G41 D3 X1.2791
N500 G3 X1.0291 Y1.8706 R.25
N502 X2.6021 R.7865
N504 X1.0291 R.7865
N506 X1.2791 Y1.6206 R.25
N508 G1 G40 X1.7791
N510 Z-.3 F45.
N512 G0 Z.35
N514 X5.1447 Y1.3115
N516 Z.3
N518 G1 Z-.2 F10.
N520 G41 D3 X4.6447 F25.
N522 G3 X4.3947 Y1.0615 R.25
N524 X5.9477 R.7765
N526 X4.3947 R.7765
N528 X4.6447 Y.8115 R.25
N530 G1 G40 X5.1447
N532 Y1.3115
N534 Z-.4 F10.
N536 G41 D3 X4.6447 F25.
N538 G3 X4.3947 Y1.0615 R.25
N540 X5.9477 R.7765
N542 X4.3947 R.7765
N544 X4.6447 Y.8115 R.25
N546 G1 G40 X5.1447
N548 Y1.3115
N550 Z-.6 F10.
N552 G41 D3 X4.6447 F25.
N554 G3 X4.3947 Y1.0615 R.25
N556 X5.9477 R.7765
N558 X4.3947 R.7765
N560 X4.6447 Y.8115 R.25
N562 G1 G40 X5.1447
N564 X5.1347 Y1.3115
N566 G41 D3 X4.6347
N568 G3 X4.3847 Y1.0615 R.25
N570 X5.9577 R.7865
N572 X4.3847 R.7865
N574 X4.6347 Y.8115 R.25
N576 G1 G40 X5.1347
N578 Z-.3 F45.
N580 G0 Z.35
( OUTSIDE )
N582 S4500 M3
N584 X3.4429 Y-.645
N586 Z.3
N588 G1 Z-.2367 F15.
N590 G41 D3 Y-.145 F35.
N592 G3 X3.1929 Y.105 R.25
N594 G1 X.4429
N596 G2 X.0948 Y.6866 R.395
N598 G1 X.9716 Y2.3229
N600 G2 X2.6585 Y2.3247 R.9576
N602 G1 X3.5407 Y.6873
N604 G2 X3.1929 Y.105 R.395
N606 G3 X2.9429 Y-.145 R.25
N608 G1 G40 Y-.645
N610 X3.4429
N612 Z-.4733 F15.
N614 G41 D3 Y-.145 F35.
N616 G3 X3.1929 Y.105 R.25
N618 G1 X.4429
N620 G2 X.0948 Y.6866 R.395
N622 G1 X.9716 Y2.3229
N624 G2 X2.6585 Y2.3247 R.9576
N626 G1 X3.5407 Y.6873
N628 G2 X3.1929 Y.105 R.395
N630 G3 X2.9429 Y-.145 R.25
N632 G1 G40 Y-.645
N634 X3.4429
N636 Z-.71 F15.
N638 G41 D3 Y-.145 F35.
N640 G3 X3.1929 Y.105 R.25
N642 G1 X.4429
N644 G2 X.0948 Y.6866 R.395
N646 G1 X.9716 Y2.3229
N648 G2 X2.6585 Y2.3247 R.9576
N650 G1 X3.5407 Y.6873
N652 G2 X3.1929 Y.105 R.395
N654 G3 X2.9429 Y-.145 R.25
N656 G1 G40 Y-.645
N658 X3.4429
N660 Z-.78 F15.
N662 G41 D3 Y-.145 F35.
N664 G3 X3.1929 Y.105 R.25
N666 G1 X.4429
N668 G2 X.0948 Y.6866 R.395
N670 G1 X.9716 Y2.3229
N672 G2 X2.6585 Y2.3247 R.9576
N674 G1 X3.5407 Y.6873
N676 G2 X3.1929 Y.105 R.395
N678 G3 X2.9429 Y-.145 R.25
N680 G1 G40 Y-.645
N682 X3.4429 Y-.625
N684 G41 D3 Y-.125
N686 G3 X3.1929 Y.125 R.25
N688 G1 X.4429
N690 G2 X.1124 Y.6771 R.375
N692 G1 X.9893 Y2.3134
N694 G2 X2.6409 Y2.3153 R.9375
N696 G1 X3.5231 Y.6779
N698 G2 X3.1929 Y.125 R.3751
N700 G3 X2.9429 Y-.125 R.25
N702 G1 G40 Y-.625
N704 Z-.48 F46.
N706 G0 Z.35
N708 X3.5439 Y3.5771
N710 Z.3
N712 G1 Z-.2367 F15.
N714 G41 D3 Y3.0771 F35.
N716 G3 X3.7939 Y2.8271 R.25
N718 G1 X6.5439
N720 G2 X6.892 Y2.2455 R.395
N722 G1 X6.0152 Y.6092
N724 G2 X4.3283 Y.6074 R.9576
N726 G1 X3.4461 Y2.2448
N728 G2 X3.7939 Y2.8271 R.395
N730 G3 X4.0439 Y3.0771 R.25
N732 G1 G40 Y3.5771
N734 X3.5439
N736 Z-.4733 F15.
N738 G41 D3 Y3.0771 F35.
N740 G3 X3.7939 Y2.8271 R.25
N742 G1 X6.5439
N744 G2 X6.892 Y2.2455 R.395
N746 G1 X6.0152 Y.6092
N748 G2 X4.3283 Y.6074 R.9576
N750 G1 X3.4461 Y2.2448
N752 G2 X3.7939 Y2.8271 R.395
N754 G3 X4.0439 Y3.0771 R.25
N756 G1 G40 Y3.5771
N758 X3.5439
N760 Z-.71 F15.
N762 G41 D3 Y3.0771 F35.
N764 G3 X3.7939 Y2.8271 R.25
N766 G1 X6.5439
N768 G2 X6.892 Y2.2455 R.395
N770 G1 X6.0152 Y.6092
N772 G2 X4.3283 Y.6074 R.9576
N774 G1 X3.4461 Y2.2448
N776 G2 X3.7939 Y2.8271 R.395
N778 G3 X4.0439 Y3.0771 R.25
N780 G1 G40 Y3.5771
N782 X3.5439
N784 Z-.78 F15.
N786 G41 D3 Y3.0771 F35.
N788 G3 X3.7939 Y2.8271 R.25
N790 G1 X6.5439
N792 G2 X6.892 Y2.2455 R.395
N794 G1 X6.0152 Y.6092
N796 G2 X4.3283 Y.6074 R.9576
N798 G1 X3.4461 Y2.2448
N800 G2 X3.7939 Y2.8271 R.395
N802 G3 X4.0439 Y3.0771 R.25
N804 G1 G40 Y3.5771
N806 X3.5439 Y3.5571
N808 G41 D3 Y3.0571
N810 G3 X3.7939 Y2.8071 R.25
N812 G1 X6.5439
N814 G2 X6.8744 Y2.255 R.375
N816 G1 X5.9975 Y.6187
N818 G2 X4.3459 Y.6169 R.9375
N820 G1 X3.4637 Y2.2543
N822 G2 X3.7939 Y2.8071 R.375
N824 G3 X4.0439 Y3.0571 R.25
N826 G1 G40 Y3.5571
N828 Z-.48 F46.
N830 G0 Z.35
N832 M5
N834 G91 G28 Z0. M9
N836 G28 X0. Y0. A0.
N838 M30
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