Tool holders and definitions

[medesigner]

Can someone explain the differences of the different series of tools? For example DA-100, DA-180, DA-200, ER-16, ER-32, TG-75 and TG-100. Also where is the best place to get a complete set of tool holders, BT40. We are looking to get all our tool holders, endmills, vises, etc for our new machine that is coming in.

THanks

[Donkey Hotey]

Well, we'll start with the tool holders. You guys are buying new. You don't have any tooling. Why on earth did you pick BT40 tooling? Has the machine been shipped? Change to Cat40 NOW! Do not wait. Read this, pick up the phone, call Haas and change the order NOW!

[twist579]

There is nothing wrong with a BT40 tool holder, they are actual more rigid

[Donkey Hotey]

More rigid than what? Not a Cat40. Cat 40 and BT40 have the same taper but different geometry on the tool changer portion. BT40 will severely limit tooling choices and will increase cost.

There is no good reason to have BT40 on a new Haas unless there is a considerable investment in legacy tooling or if there are a bunch of other machines already in the shop running BT and you need commonality among them.

[Geof]

Perhaps BT40 is the standard in Antartica.

[Donkey Hotey]

It'll be interesting to see how the HFO services them. I understand that Selway has the Arctic and Antarctic contracts.

[fpworks]

Originally Posted by twist579 There is nothing wrong with a BT40 tool holder, they are actual more rigid

Not true. However, BT does not have a diameter restriction immediately after the flange, so a BT holder is permitted to be "fatter" than the CAT after the flange. I suppose this could contribute to some rigidity, but I would opine the limitation would be from the spindle/taper size and overall tool length before any benefit from the holder. I have never seen any evidence supporting this.

Perhaps BT40 is the standard in Antartica.

And Japan?

[Donkey Hotey]

Define 'standard' for me, cuz I'm dumb. Are they hanging on to it for some reason or do they actually have a machinery standard? When Enco advertises nothing but CT stuff and eBay is full of CT, Chinese knock-off stuff, I have to wonder how much of a standard it really is.

Heck, I was told that BT is ancient, CT is already on its way out and HSK is the 'next big thing.'

[Geof]

Originally Posted by fpworks ....And Japan?

I think CT is only in North America and it is BT elsewhere. I bought a VF2 that was intended for Korea but the purchase was cancelled, and the tool changer arm had to be changed from BT to CT. That was the only change so I do not see how the rigidity can be any different.

[AppEng]

As far as the difference between CAT & BT, the taper degree is the same, everything is the same from the gage line back. BT is more common in Europe. Readily available, but not nearly as much as CAT- at least in America. I believe you can run a BT in a CAT in most machines with the right pull-stud, but it must be changed manually. BT has a thicker bottom flange (for whatever reason) and will not work in an auto-toolchanger designed for CAT. I'm really not sure if one is more ridgid than the other- if it is, it's not much. If you want absolute ultimate ridgidity in a mill spindle, choose a BigPlus, HSK, or even Capto interface. Nearly 2 times the drawbar force (I've checked it). And they are MUCH better for high speed machining due to the centrifugal force generated at high RPM which spin the gripper fingers on a CAT pullstud apart, loosening the grip, and causing finish and tolerance issues. HSK/CAPTO connections have nearly 2ton of pull force, and get stronger the faster the spindle goes due to multiple grippers on the [I]inside[I] of the toolholder. There are things you can do with an HSK63 that no CT40 will touch, and vice versa for HSK100/CT50.

As far as collets, stay away from the TG if you can. ER style is a good choice- readily available, fair priced, and quite accurate if they're good quality. Go for an ER32 or ER40 size- both will give you good clamping diameter range- I believe the ER40's reach up into 1" range. D-Style collets are ultra-precision and are overkill for most situations. As far as toolholders, cutters, inserts, etc goes- if you just bought your machine, contact a local tooling rep- a lot of companies will give you a pretty deep discount for a 1 time new machine package just to get their tools in the spindle. I work for Seco, and we offer a New Machine Owner package to anybody who buys a new milling machine, for 50% off list price up to $5,000. A lot of customers like it to buy their basic toolholders and cutters (the initially expensive stuff), and ours are very very good. Same package available for lathes as well. Not trying to be a sales-guy here; just trying to help you out. Any factory rep from any of the insert companies should be glad to help you. If you are interested, I can help you out.

[KevinWilkins]

Are the BT40 holders the same as we use in Germany which are referred to as SK40 DIN 69871?

[chmillman]

Are the BT40 holders the same as we use in Germany which are referred to as SK40 DIN 69871?

Nope. DIN 69871 is essentially the same as CAT. The difference is that in the US, the pull stud thread is English (5/8-16, I think), whereas the Euro equivalent has an M16 pull stud thread.

BT tooling is usually called MAS-BT 403. I believe it is a Japanese standard (JIS B6339), it is most often found on Japanese machines... --ch