Haas Tm1

[rallyslag]

Hi iv been looking around at the possibility of getting a new mill


i have been tempted at looking into one of the Haas TM1's as the price seems very reasonable and they do a hire purchase type scheme

now i will be using the mill mostly to machine 3D parts using an offline CAD/CAM system

and i will be machining relatively soft materials for the most part, maybe the occasional steel part

i will be doing 3D work on it so the jobs will be one off tooling with a fine step over to achieve a good surface finish so will have fairly large NC files to run

any recommendations or info would be appreciated

[flashno]

We have both MiniMills, and a TM1, all with extended memory & high speed machining options. Extended memory allows larger files to be loaded (vs. drip feeding - never been a big fan of that). Don't confuse Haas' high speed option with high speed toolpaths offered by CAM systems, of a high RPM spindle - it is neither. It is the ability for the control to read ahead farther and avoid data starvation (which would = pauses in the toolpath). I would reccomend both options for your surfacing work with fine stepovers.

Higher RPM may also be desireable for your soft materials. Price both a TM and a Mini (or SuperMini) with the options you need - if they're close in price, I like our Minis a lot more than the TM - fully enclosed, faster rapids, tool changer standard, MUCH better coolant facilities, with or without programmable coolant).

Ed

[rallyslag]

the high speed option you mention sounds like something that should be as standard that they just limit artificially in order to charge you more to enable

makes me think maybe the good deal on the surface isn't quite as good as it looks

[flashno]

You're exactly right, that's how Haas markets. There are several "must have" options (which can vary depending on what you make) most people add to a Haas of any size. The good news is, all the option pricing is on thier website. I suggest going through all the options & control options there, and see where you are. Then talk with your dealer, they can sometimes offer packages at discounted prices.

Ed

[Donkey Hotey]

Originally Posted by rallyslag makes me think maybe the good deal on the surface isn't quite as good as it looks

If you mean the TM-1, that's true. If you look at the VF-1 and compare the standard options with the things you'd have to add to a TM-1 to equip it the same, you'd see that they are closer than you think. That's no accident. Options cost money.

Why do you want a TM-1? Strictly price? If you are seriously going to be making parts and needing flood coolant, I can make a really good case for buying a VF-1 and once you're there, you'll buy a VF-2. The mini mill is also a good choice but you'd better be sure that your parts are going to be small.

As for the other options like HSM, you don't have to add that option until you need it. It's an option code that you enter into the control. When and if you find that you need it, you can call with a credit card, get the code and upgrade your machine. They could charge for it up front but that would just raise the base price of the machine. Think of it as an upgrade that's easy to purchase in the future.

[HelicopterJohn]

Hi rallyslag,

If you think you will need a 4th axis at any time in the near future I would order the prewire with the machine on a TM series machine.

If you order it later you will have to pay a HAAS technician to install it. At least that is my understanding. Maybe others can verify this or you could check with your HAAS Factory Outlet.

If you are looking for a PCOOL system you might want to check some of the threads here on the HAAS forum. If you have the necessary electronics skills (working around HIGH DC voltage) and you are able to make your own mounting bracket for the PCOOL nozzle you can save some money. I think the PCOOL 32 position programmable coolant nozzle was about $675.00 plus a $12.00 cable on the TM-1P series. There was no need to purchase a turn on code for this item on my TM-1P machine.

Just some things you might want to consider.

John

[SORCHEROR]

the mini mill is nice,but hass offers a tm-1p,fully enclosed with 6000 rpm spindle and the price is around 36,500 with tool changer,cant beat it,i wish they had it when i bought my tm-1,im going to buy more tm mills from hass in the future,its been running without any down time for 4 yrs now,good luck

[SORCHEROR]

one more thing i forgot to mention,the tm-1p offers programable coolant nozzle and high pressure coolant,i recomend it

[Geof]

Originally Posted by rallyslag .....and i will be machining relatively soft materials for the most part, maybe the occasional steel part i will be doing 3D work on it so the jobs will be one off tooling with a fine step over to achieve a good surface finish so will have fairly large NC files to run any recommendations or info would be appreciated

I think these aspects could be crucial:

Soft material (aluminum alloys?), fine step over, good surface finish, large files in my mind all point toward the need for high spindle speed, fast feeds and fast rapids.

My recommendation is try to have one of your files run on a TMP or MiniMill at 6000 rpm and then on a machine with a 10,000, 12,000 or even 15,000rpm spindle; make sure you optimize the feed for the different speeds to get equivalent cut per tooth and at least in the roughing sequences optimize the depth of cut and step over to take advantage of the extra power in the faster machines.

There are big differences in metal removal rate and surface finish between a 6000rpm TM machine and a 15,000rpm Super MiniMill or VF2 which could justify the price differences.

[Donkey Hotey]

Here's some reading for you on the choice of a TM-1. Fourperf was ready to buy a TM-1 but decided on the VF-2 and was happy that he did. You have to need it and it is more money but it also buys more. You have to decide exactly what you need:

http://cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49443
http://cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49533
http://cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53153

I'm not saying the TM-1 and TM-1P aren't good machines, just that they have their limits and applications. You don't want to outgrow the machine right after buying it.

I have used a TM-2 and I can tell you that after using a VF-2, the open machine drives me nuts. I'm not sure the enclosure would make it much better for me. I find the clearance to the tools hanging in the umbrella to be very limiting and I often find myself checking to see if the rapids are set at 5%.

[SORCHEROR]

the vf machines are no doubt the better choice,but for a starter machine on a budget you cant beat the tm series.i hated my open tm1 so i enclosed it,but they offer the 1p n 3p
enclosed now,ive cut alot of aluminum on my with no problems,if you can afford the vf series u should buy one,vf-o or 1 are nice machines