Haas Mills

[Delw]

Specifically there horizontials and the vf4 or vf5

Looking at getting one of these, never owned a haas. always fadal.
will they cut incolnels and 304 ss with out much of a problem? are they good for job shops were you just don't know what the next job will be made of? I know they cut a much better circle than a fadal.

is a horizontal with a tombstone as rigid as a flat table with vise's on it? seems it wouldn't be do to the length of the tombstone.

I like the horizontal do to the 4th axis is pretty much built in and will save operations in most cases and with a standard VMC The 4th wouldnt be as rigid and much smaller.

Geof I respect your input so give me some you have quite a few haas machines do you have a horizontial, if you do the pros and cons would be helpful

[Geof]

I don't have any horizontals and other than a GR510 my biggest machines are VF2 without gearboxes so I cannot comment on rigidity issues or machining tough stuff.

And if anyone asked me to machine Inconel I think I would running screaming off the nearest cliff.

Regarding reliability I have found Haas good, actually very good except for a blip around 2004 - 2006 when their attention to detail on final assembly seemed to slip. Several machines needed finicky little fixes during warranty.

My last two or three machines have been fine so they must have tightened up a bit.

Do you know there is a 7% price increase July 1st at Haas; you may need to do some quick decision making if you want to save a bit of money.

[Delw]

yeah I heard about the increase, thats why I am asking LOL, Inco is fun you should try it sometime. you knw those hairs you grow on your chest when your a man? well when running inco you tend to pick them out alot.

do you cut 304 or anything tough?


Delw

[Geof]

Originally Posted by Delw ... Inco is fun you should try it sometime.... do you cut 304 or anything tough? Delw

I know Inconel is 'fun', like 317L is fun and Hastaloy C. Years ago I was in a place making Pulp Mill equipment in all these wonderful alloys; all manual machines running Kennametal KC850 inserts.

The only stainless we do now is 1/4" dowel pins machined from bar stock and finishing the ends of 1" wide 16 gauge strips; not exactly tough.

[fuzzyracing1967]

Hey Delw,We have a vf4 and I can tell you there is no problem with doing any kind of metals on them,(all though can't say any thing about Inconel never ran any).We do mostly alum castings,mild steels,and stainless,but then again every thing is relative to how you cut it,as in light shallow cuts,or taking heavy deep cuts.I personaly try to stay on the light side,no need to beat the crap out of the machine.As far as the 4th axis we do alot of jobs with a hrt210 indexer,and have had no problems with rigidaty.We allso are looking into new hmc,but for the pallet changer part of it,some of are run times on parts are in the hours on vmc,so i'm looking into hmc to go lights out,hell with 2 tombstones on pallets it can run all night with no operator .
Ps hey Geof did you now here the increase to from your hfo?

[Geof]

Originally Posted by fuzzyracing1967 .....Ps hey Geof did you now here the increase to from your hfo?

I took a close look at the quote and it was there in the fine print; 7% July 1.

So the GT20 is now ordered, and I have a TM3P sitting down at the HFO waiting for use to clear out space for it; which is being done right now so it will be in next week.

[fuzzyracing1967]

it was nice of them to tell you....

[Delw]

Fuzzy , thanks for the info, what spindle did you get on it, the standard 7500 or the higher speed option?

[JoBwan]

Originally Posted by Delw Specifically there horizontials and the vf4 or vf5 Looking at getting one of these, never owned a haas. always fadal. will they cut incolnels and 304 ss with out much of a problem? are they good for job shops were you just don't know what the next job will be made of? I know they cut a much better circle than a fadal.

Delw,
My company now owns @20 Haas machines. Starting with a tm-1 all the way to the VF-10. We also have 2 fadals. 1 - 4020 and 1 - VMC 15. This is mostly due to the fact that Haas will run circles around Fadals. Also the cost to repair fadals is about double, compared to Haas repairs. We have 5 Mazak horizontals and have stayed completly away from Haas horizontals as they do not come close to Mazak on rigidity issues. You can debate forever on what to buy, but my opinion would be a Haas VF or a Mazak horizontal. Then again, This is only My opinion. What matters is that you have an opinion to follow. Good luck!!

[Geof]

Originally Posted by Delw Fuzzy , thanks for the info, what spindle did you get on it, the standard 7500 or the higher speed option?

If you are going to do any aluminum get the 10,000rpm spindle. Some people suggest even faster but anything above 10,000 needs balanced tooling which I think can result in more hassle than it is worth.

[PBMW]

Do you really think so
Geof?
I'm planning a horizontal cell for my shop. Two machines both 630mm horizontal 50 taper machines. One will be a box way machine with big plus 50 taper and 50hp. 8k spindle and the other will be a 50hp roller guide machine with 20k spindle. We do a LOT of nasty to cut stuff. We are getting into more aluminum in some assemblies that need to go as ship sets.
20k and faster has a LOT to recommend. Faster cycle times....All those balanced toolholders stay in that one machine anyway. I LIKE the idea of 180 tools in a machine.

[Geof]

Originally Posted by PBMW Do you really think so Geof?....... .........20k and faster has a LOT to recommend. Faster cycle times....All those balanced toolholders stay in that one machine anyway. I LIKE the idea of 180 tools in a machine.

I did say 'can be more hassle'; doesn't have to be.

If you have a system in place, or dedicated tooling that stays in the machine, I think the benefits can be well worth the hassle.

But the interesting thing is that going faster does not affect cycle times much, or I should say it didn't in some tests I did. We have a job that goes on the 15,000rpm machine and one time I punched the over-rides up to the maximum; I did have balanced tools. It made a hell of a lot more noise, the finish was markedly shinier, and it took only a few seconds off a roughing sequence that takes about 2 minutes. I find multi-part fixturing a much better way to improve part cycle times because it divides tool change times over many parts; couple this with a side mount changer and it is seems better than running the spindle faster on our stuff. The noise was also a factor; it was noisy enough to be painful. Although I should mention I have two VF2s facing each other in a 'cell' and both were running. Simple earplugs where not adequate and wearing big ear protectors all day long is a pain and I don't want to impose that on my guys.

But when I have visitors in the shop and that job is running I will punch the over-rides just to see them wince.