Need Help!- Haas TM3

[grantc]

Hi all.
This is my first post so I hope I'm doing it right. (not the most computer literate person around)

My work is thinking about buying a Haas TM3 turret Mill, Can anyone let me know what they think of these machines (Ease of learning, programming etc) bearing in mind myself and my colleagues are all manual machinists with little or no cnc experience. Some of my colleagues saw a different mill with an Anilam controller and were very impressed by it's ease of use, but the bean counters are quite insistant we get a Haas machine instead. We will be using the machine for a lot of one off's rather than production work and will have CAD/CAM software also. Any Thought's?

[HAILINHAAS]

Buy the Haas. TM-3 is a good machine. The Haas control is one of the easiest to use in the industry. The control is basically the same for all of their other models too. So .. when its time to buy another machine .. say a lathe or horizontal .. the control layout is basically the same. Make sure you order the chip conveyor.

[JDenyer232]

I can't really speak about the Haas machines as I have never run one. We have a Fanuc Robodrill Mate that we just love. I really like the fact that it is totally enclosed to contain coolant splashing. It came with Manual Guide i that is a really simple to use conversational language, although we really don't use it anymore since we bought the cam software. Programming a CNC is really easy once you understand the basics of G code. Manual machinists will adapt well to using a CNC as you already understand the basics of feed and speed, and the basics of machining. The Robodrill came to 50k but that included tooling, freight, setup, and training. We have had this machine for over a year now and have put 2000+ hrs on it and have had zero problems. Haas makes decent machines too, at least a lot of people I know seem to like them. One thing to keep in mind, with the TM3 you will need to purchase a lot of extras as options, like coolant etc, the Robodrill comes with a lot of these things as standard equipment, also the TM3 lists 4000rpm, the Robodrill is 10000rpm. If your gonna be machining aluminum your gonna want at least a10000rpm spindle speed. Either machine will end up costing you about 50k tooled up and delivered. Here is a brochure for the Robodrill mate. And no I am not selling these, just a very satisfied user.

http://www.walkermachinery.net/_file...ith_Walker.pdf

Hope this if of some help.

[grantc]

thx for you're reply, don't think a Robodrill would be suitable for us as we want much larger table and travel. Like I said our bean counters have already pretty much decided on this machine mainly because of it's size versus cost. So we can't really sway that decision anyway. just want to find out if the controllers are user friendly enough for a bunch of old duffers like ourselves.

Grantc.

[JDenyer232]

Originally Posted by grantc thx for you're reply, don't think a Robodrill would be suitable for us as we want much larger table and travel. Like I said our bean counters have already pretty much decided on this machine mainly because of it's size versus cost. So we can't really sway that decision anyway. just want to find out if the controllers are user friendly enough for a bunch of old duffers like ourselves. Grantc.

Yeah the Robodrill is a small machine, but we do mostly small stuff out of aluminum or brass and occasianally steel. The controllers used today are much more user friendly than the ones from a long time ago. If you are a good manual machinist then you will have no problems switching to CNC, there is a learning curve for the G codes, so I hope the bean counters don't expect the machine to be cranking to it's full potential on day one. I highly recomend some type of in house training from Haas, it is money well spent, crashing a new machine would not make the bean counters happy, and you will most likely crash it unless you understand how to set work offsets and tool lentgh offsets, as well as understanding g code. Not that g code is hard, you just have to be able to see what motions the machine will make when running the code. The Haas site has some good videos of using their controller to set up and run a job, and I must admit even though I am partial to Fanucs their controller seems very user friendly.

[grantc]

We've had the Haas rep in with a demo controller and he told us it's basically a copy of a Fanuc controller. From what he explained you could use it with G codes or something like conversationally that then wrote it's own G codes in the background, does that seem right? As for time to get used to the machine I work in a university so it's not like a production enviroment, times is certainly not money here.

thx for you're replies.

[JDenyer232]

Originally Posted by grantc We've had the Haas rep in with a demo controller and he told us it's basically a copy of a Fanuc controller. From what he explained you could use it with G codes or something like conversationally that then wrote it's own G codes in the background, does that seem right? As for time to get used to the machine I work in a university so it's not like a production enviroment, times is certainly not money here. thx for you're replies.

Yeah conversational is a menu driven screen where you basically fill in the blanks, and the controller generates the code for you. This works great for simple shapes, pocketing groving etc. For complex shapes you would be better off using a cam system, it's much faster. We use Sheetcam and it works really well for our applications, you can download a free trial version to try it out. It's less than $200 to buy it if you like it. Right now I'm running an 11 tooth gear made out of 4140 steel, took about 20 minutes to program it using Sheetcam, the file is about 280K. Hand coding would have taken a lot longer, and couldn't really do it conversationally.

[61SedanMan]

We bought the TM-3 first of the year and love it. Get away from even thinking about the conversational side of the machine unless you have yet to buy the cam software; it is extremely limited unless you are doing a square or a circle. Build your own guarding and coolant tank and save a lot of money (I can take pictures of mine to show you if you are interested in seeing it). Spend the money on a tool magazine (I hear they have a 20 tool changer now.....wish mine had it), wireless probing, and rigid tapping. Make everything else. The 40 x 20 x/y travel is NICE. It isn't a VF by a long shot (rigidity and speed), but for a first cnc, it will make alot of sense to you. Any specific questions, feel free to ask.



Greg

[Geof]

Up to nine years ago I had only manual machine experience (around thirty years) then I started equipping my company with Haas machines. The control is very easy to use, writing programs on the machine is very simple and the Haas editor has many functions like copy/paste, block select and copy to clipboard, that are in word processing programs.

I never bothered with the Intuitive Programming System or Quick Code and just taught myself G-code. Now most of the time I am doing new product design and tooling using a Haas MiniMill and a TL2 lathe; I might touch a manual machine 2% of the time. I have dozens of what I call 'template programs' for different operations; drilling and tapping, hole interpolation, facing, slotting, profiling, etc. It is so simple to edit on the Haas I just change coordinates from job to job. Many of the programs are configured with subroutines so for spotting, drilling and counterboring I only need to enter the hole coordinates in one location in a subroutine and then have the different tools use them. Haas also has canned cycles for drilling holes on a bolt circle, around an arc, along a line at any angle.

Certain ly I think a TM3 is worth getting. Learn how to program directly as well as run the machine from the control in MDI. With a bit of time spent on the machine you can get to the point where even a one-off can often be done as quickly as is possible on a manual machine; two-offs almost certainly quicker and three-offs much quicker.

[grantc]

thx again for you're replies.

really helpful.

As far as i know we are getting a CAD/CAM pakage called OneCNC. don't have much experience here as I'm only learning CAD at the moment. Had a demo and it seemed pretty good (expensive tho.) As for tool changers we're not getting one as here in Europe I think machines have to be fully inclosed if you have a carousel and we want to keep it open. Not sure why, heard some people discussing demostrations for students.

It seems the general concensus is that it's a fairly easy machine to get to grips with.

What about the robustness of the actual machine, is it fairly well built and able to take a bit of punishment? Not that it'll be worked to hard in our enviroment.

Grantc

[HelicopterJohn]

Hi GrantC,

I am a newbie to the CNC world. I purchased a HAAS TM-1P around the first of the year. I am an 62 year old duffer who found the control pretty easy to use. I think you will really like it.

I also have the ONECNC XR2 Mill Advantage package and I really like it. They have just come out with a new version of the software XR3. It has a lot of new improvements that make it even easier to use. ONECNC also has a forum (for ONECNC owners only) with some very knowledgable guys that are eager to help you with any problems you may have.

Sounds like you are going to get a nice machine and some decent software to run it.

Have Fun,

John

[Geof]

Originally Posted by HelicopterJohn ...I am an 62 year old duffer who found the control pretty easy to use.....

He is 62 and is a "duffer"!! What does that make me at close to 65?